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pyro_boarder
PASR Box Building Guide

As we progress in park skiing and riding people often want to build boxes or rails so that they can practice at home. Many people on this message board have asked the question “How do I build a box?” So here is an introduction to box building compiled from posts made on PASR over the past few years.

This guide is intended to help give you enough information on the topic of box building so you can design and construct a box to your specific needs and desires, as well as learn what types of materials to use for different aspects of the box. It is not intended to be a step-by-step how to, but rather an informative reference. If you are just looking for plans there are [or rather will be soon] links at the bottom of the guide.

Also note that this guide is written assuming you have some experience in handiwork. If you do not have this kind of background then this is a great project to get started, but you will need to gain some background knowledge before beginning.

The Basics
A box generally consists of a frame, top sheet, and copping. These will be discussed in detail later. For your first box you will probably start out with a flat box. Once you have some experience with a flat box, building any other type of box is just a matter of being creative in the construction.

Tools
Although it is possible to build a box using just hand tools, having power tools available will make the process much easier. Although specific tools will vary based on your choice of materials and construction methods you will probably need at least a saw, drill/driver, and measurement tools.

Design
There are many design considerations to take into account when building a box. Specific recommendations will not be discussed as the final design is largely a matter of preference; however we will go over the things you want to take into account when designing your box. If you want to visualize you box Google has a easy to use CAD program called SketchUp available for free at http://sketchup.google.com/. This program could be used to mock up your design before construction begins. Note: the following is written assuming you are building a flat box, but most of the advice applies to other types of boxes as well.

Dimensions
The dimensions for your box are determined by many factors. Most important is personal preference and the intended use, available space, and your budget. Some things to consider when choosing the length, width, and height are listed below.
  • Length: Most people recommend making the box longer than 10’. You can make it shorter if you need or want it that way.
  • Width: Most boxes are around a foot wide but do vary greatly. Some range from only a few inches wide to 4’ or more (i.e. butter boxes). When deciding on the width think about what you will be using it for and your preference for width. A wider box will be easer to balance on while a narrower one will be more of a challenge.
  • Height: Do you want a low box to practice on or something high to challenge yourself. You should also take in to account that a box that is short relative to its width will be easier to stabilize that a taller box. The exception to this would be if you are burying the box in snow.
Materials
There are many materials that can be used to make a box. In general the box is made from wood or metal, and the top sheet and coping are some type of plastic or metal. Specific materials and their uses as well as pros and cons for each component of the box are discussed below.

Frame
Most home built boxes will are built form wood. 2x4 studs are the most common material use with ply-wood sheeting. This does not mean that you can not build a box out of what ever you have available (or free). You could also build the box out of metal if you have the necessary skills and equipment. Basically you want to build a box out of your material, use diagonals to sturdy it up and add strong legs or supports so it will not tip. Sheeting can then be added to protect the frame. Any wood that is exposed to the elements should be either painted with outdoor paint or pressure treated lumber*. You should follow general construction methods, but exactly how you should go about framing it out is beyond the scope of this guide.

* Important: Pressure treated lumber may contain chemicals that pose health risks. If you intend to use it please go to this Consumer Safety Information Sheet for information on the risks and safety precautions that should be taken.

Top Sheet
The top sheet is usually some type of plastic that makes the box more slippery and protects the box and your skis/board from damage. What type of material to use is the most commonly asked question so there is a table below that lists most materials that are used with there pros and cons. The top sheet should be secured to the box in between the coping (or on top if the box will not have coping). It should be secured in to the frame with countersunk screws so they do not damage equipment.

Coping
Coping is a rail around the box that is raised slightly above the top sheet. It can be metal or plastic (e.g. PVC) tube. Care should be taken when using PVC or aluminum because the softness of the material has been reported to catch edges; however, this should not be a problem if you are careful to not dig your edge in. Aluminum has also been reported to be sticky and PVC is slick. Angle Iron can also be used as coping. Steel tube is a good choice for the coping but is more expensive. Steel tube, with the exception of galvanized steel, or angle iron will rust, but it is easy to file off.

In order to attach pipe to the box you can screw up through the pipe if it is soft plastic. Alternatively you can drill a hole big enough to let the head of the nail through the top of the pipe. Then drill a hole just big enough to accommodate the threads on the opposite side of the pipe. You can then fasten the pipe with the screw through the smaller hole using the larger one to access it.



Top sheet material table
==========================
UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight polyethylene)
UHMW is a high very density polyethylene plastic used by ski resorts for top sheet.
Pros: Very high abrasion and impact resistance as well as a low coefficient of friction which make it very well suited for top sheet. Will out last all other listed materials.
Cons: Cost
-----------------------------
HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene)
High density plastic similar to UHMW. Also know as puck board.
Pros: Very durable, easy to work with, and slides well.
Cons: Cost
-----------------------------
ABS
ABS plastic is rigid and impact resistant.
Note: Pros v. Cons are currently unavailable because there is not enough experience with using this material. If you have used it let us know about it works.
-----------------------------
Formica
Formica is commonly used as counter top material and is available at most home improvement stores.
Pros: It slides well, and is readily available.
Cons: Chips easily in the absence of coping.
-----------------------------
Acrylic (e.g. Plexiglas)
Acrylic is a clear used to replace glass in applications where it could be easily broken.
Pros: Readily available at home improvement stores.
Cons: Prone to cracking and should not be fastened with countersunk screws. It is also relatively soft and should be used only with coping.
-----------------------------
Lexan
LEXAN® is a trademark for a plastic developed by GE.
Pros: Much stronger than acrylic and resists cracking.
Cons: Cost
==========================


Hopefully using this guide you have enough information to get started in box building. If you still need help or have any other questions please ask. There are many knowledgeable people here that will be more than willing to help.

Most of the information here is from threads on www.paskiandride.com

Box Building
surface material for box
Bulid a Box
Box Building[2]
Home made jibs, advice needed
Backyard Rail Help, Need help designing backyard rail

I would like to give credit and thanks the members of PA Ski and Ride, who’s knowledge base provided the information necessary to compile this guide.

Copyright © 2006 PA Ski and Ride

Disclaimer:
Although every effort was made to provide accurate information no claims are made as to the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of the information provided. By using any information presented you do so at your own risk. Skiing and Snowboarding are inherently dangerous sports, especially when obstacles are introduced. Paskiandride.com and its members accept no responsibility for your actions.

---------------------------------------------------------

Revision History

07.12.06
- Initial Post
07.18.06
- Added Title
- Added Disclaimer
- Minor changes (wording, syntax)
- Rough draft of top sheet materials added.
07.19.06
- Edited references
08.07.06
- Expanded introduction
- Added pressure treated lumber warning
- Fixed Pro/Con top sheet materials table
- Added formatting
pyro_boarder
I did a little revision and added a rough draft for a table of top sheet materials. If any one has more information on using the materials, specificaly from Formica down, please let me know as I don't have any experance or knowledge about using them.

Also this is a working document so if you have any suggestions on how to improve it post them and I will do another revision.

See also: [topic=5131]The "FAQ's" FAQ[/topic]
shadows
you can buy sheets of diamond...
http://stores.ebay.com/WEPlastics
Glenn
Cleaned up the thread and pinned it. If you could, please link back to the FAQ: FAQ for the rules so people understand how to post in this FAQ thread.
Stevo
Thanks for the sketchup link. I've heard of it over at rampplans.org, but never tried it. Awesome, easy-to-use and powerful software.
Glenn
The part about fixing the coping to the box is unclear. Perhaps rewording and/or including diagrams or pictures would be helpful.

The box frame construction was pretty sparce on details as well.

Even though I understand your desire to keep a certain level of abstraction from details, specific examples might be nice. Perhaps a diagram of a basic box. Perhaps details of the box you built (I think you did...). I didn't check the in site links perhaps they have that info. If so, maybe just some quick captions for each link about the value of that particular link. Just a thought.

Also, it's kind of assumed your audience has some basic handywork background. This may or may not be the case. I would include a warning about using pressure treated lumber, as far to many people don't take this stuff seriously enough. Also, a pro's con's table for the various metals to use might be cool.

More later... probobly.
Papasteeze
Inserting a plan would be far more helpful than reading all of that.
Stevo
QUOTE(Glenn @ Jul 19 2006, 11:02 AM) [snapback]91648[/snapback]

The part about fixing the coping to the box is unclear. Perhaps rewording and/or including diagrams or pictures would be helpful.

The box frame construction was pretty sparce on details as well.

Even though I understand your desire to keep a certain level of abstraction from details, specific examples might be nice. Perhaps a diagram of a basic box. Perhaps details of the box you built (I think you did...). I didn't check the in site links perhaps they have that info. If so, maybe just some quick captions for each link about the value of that particular link. Just a thought.

Also, it's kind of assumed your audience has some basic handywork background. This may or may not be the case. I would include a warning about using pressure treated lumber, as far to many people don't take this stuff seriously enough. Also, a pro's con's table for the various metals to use might be cool.

More later... probobly.

ooh ooh, let me let me. I'll draw a basic box in sketchup w00t.gif
pyro_boarder
QUOTE(Papasteeze @ Jul 19 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]91653[/snapback]

Inserting a plan would be far more helpful than reading all of that.


The point is not too just say this is how to do it. It is to give enough information on the design considerations so you can design and build it however you like. I will however, include designs for a basic box to give an idea and give a quick fix if that is what you are looking for. Just a diagram will still raise many questions and the point is to try to answer as many as possible in one place.

Glenn, I put the links are there more as a works cited. I'm not sure yet if I'll just make that more clear, or work it into more of a further research thing.

***
I'm going to wait until more people post suggestions then use all of the suggestions to revise it.

To do:
  • Make it more clear as to the purpose and the assumptions made when writing.
  • Add diagrams.
  • Warning about pressure treated lumber.
  • Improve the Framing section
  • Finish Top Sheet Materials Table
  • Pro/Con for metals
  • Suppliers
ec156
plexi glass also works pretty good for a topsheet
Stevo
As promised...IPB Image
Now for framing...
Stevo
....and here is some unfinished framing. (just didn't feel like finishing it) This will make one strong box...

IPB Image
shadows
^you need some general dimensions to dumbass. nice try though
Stevo
QUOTE(Shadows @ Jul 19 2006, 05:54 PM) [snapback]91689[/snapback]

^you need some general dimensions to dumbass. nice try though

That's up to the builder, but since you're gonna be an ass about it.

That box (both) were built to these specs: 2 feet wide by 2.5 feet tall by 25 feet long. 2x4 framing, with studs spaced 11 inches on center, or 8 inches apart.

there.
shadows
thank you
Stevo
suree
pyro_boarder
With a width of 2' you could probably get away with studs evey 4' or so where ever you have uprights.
LTDSNOWBOARDER
Hey, maybe you could add something involving how to make a drop in ramp for handrails. If you want i could do it for you with specific(sp) details and detailed drawings.
Glenn
Drop ramps will can/should have their own FAQ. Good idea... not good for this FAQ.

Feel free to start up the Drop in FAQ!
Papasteeze
just got this plan..

IPB Image

IPB Image
shadows
i just got a shitload of wood. and being how small my car is, it took me 5 trips there and back (from my house, to southside where the wood was).
so i can make a freakin sweet box. i just need topsheet/coping and damn....backyard sessions.
it looks like i got enough wood to make a 30+ foot box, 1-2 feet high.
Stevo
What do you guys think about pvc as a topsheet? Found some here.
Oakley21
QUOTE(stevo @ Jul 21 2006, 01:39 AM) [snapback]91886[/snapback]

What do you guys think about pvc as a topsheet? Found some here.


pvc slides as coping or a rail, so i guess it might work, it might be a little soft and catch your edges though...im not really sure
shadows
im just gonna go get some formica from the counter store near me stevo
theprogram4
QUOTE(Shadows @ Jul 21 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]91908[/snapback]

im just gonna go get some formica from the counter store near me stevo

formica, thats what i used
shadows
did you get it for free? im gonna see if they will give me any scrap they have
theprogram4
QUOTE(Shadows @ Jul 21 2006, 12:19 PM) [snapback]91923[/snapback]

did you get it for free? im gonna see if they will give me any scrap they have


yep. My friend's dad is a carpenter and he was workin on a bank that needed alot of it. He had tons of extras. My shop teacher said Home Depot might sell scraps real cheap.
LTDSNOWBOARDER
Id say to not worry about money too much, the pvc might work, but we wont have snow for like 5+ months icon_smile_banghead.gif so you could gradully just save some money up. I made a wooden rail last year and was really, really hesitent about trying to boardslide it, but when i tried to it didnt work out to bad. I would say i only caught my edge like 2 times.
Stevo
QUOTE(LTDSNOWBOARDER @ Jul 21 2006, 08:44 PM) [snapback]91978[/snapback]

Id say to not worry about money too much, the pvc might work, but we wont have snow for like 5+ months icon_smile_banghead.gif so you could gradully just save some money up. I made a wooden rail last year and was really, really hesitent about trying to boardslide it, but when i tried to it didnt work out to bad. I would say i only caught my edge like 2 times.

I've got more important things to save my money for, as does dan. Formica works fine, we tried it at skier1260's yard park. Why go through all that trouble of ordering and shipping and waiting? I was just posting that for ideas, not what we were gonna actually use.
pyro_boarder
If any one has any links to sites with designs, please post them (other than rampplans.org). I'm having trouble finding anything. Thanks.
pyro_boarder
I fixed some of the concerns that were addressed and finished the top sheet table. I also formatted it to be more appealing and hopefully easier to read. I am still going to fix some more of the things everyone mentioned, including adding some diagrams. Again all suggestions are welcome.
shadows


so, plexi glass is soft as shit
formica is actually expensive - 60 bucks for two 13 foot boxes, that are 1 foot wide. i think she said $1.53/sq ft
uhmw/hdpe is even more expensive.

so what the hell?
im making two boxes and so far i have only spent like 10 bucks on screws. now im down to the topsheet/coping and i think total its gonne be like 200 bucks.

pipe is around 60 bucks.
theprogram4
QUOTE(pyro_boarder @ Aug 7 2006, 06:45 PM) [snapback]93570[/snapback]

I fixed some of the concerns that were addressed and finished the top sheet table. I also formatted it to be more appealing and hopefully easier to read. I am still going to fix some more of the things everyone mentioned, including adding some diagrams. Again all suggestions are welcome.


nice work!
pyro_boarder
QUOTE(Shadows @ Aug 7 2006, 09:27 PM) [snapback]93579[/snapback]

so, plexi glass is soft as shit
formica is actually expensive - 60 bucks for two 13 foot boxes, that are 1 foot wide. i think she said $1.53/sq ft
uhmw/hdpe is even more expensive.

so what the hell?
im making two boxes and so far i have only spent like 10 bucks on screws. now im down to the topsheet/coping and i think total its gonne be like 200 bucks.

pipe is around 60 bucks.


Fixed that. Eventualy I want to add price comparisons as well as a table of materials for coping but haven't had the time.
shadows
QUOTE(pyro_boarder @ Aug 7 2006, 11:19 PM) [snapback]93597[/snapback]

Fixed that. Eventualy I want to add price comparisons as well as a table of materials for coping but haven't had the time.


i was hoping more fore suggestions/info to help me save money
the depot wont sell/give scraps, and neither will the kitchen stores
shadows
so, i just got back from buying the rest of my materials. topsheet was 47 bucks for a 4x8 sheet of formica. thats enough to cover both of my boxes, with a little extra.
i got 5, 10 ft black steel pipe for 10 bucks a piece. so all together it was like 100 bucks (not including wood, cause i goot wood for free)
not bad. i guess
zaldon
QUOTE(Shadows @ Aug 8 2006, 06:37 AM) [snapback]93605[/snapback]

i was hoping more fore suggestions/info to help me save money
the depot wont sell/give scraps, and neither will the kitchen stores

depot does have a scrap bin that has bad wood for loooow prices nana.gif
theprogram4
QUOTE(Shadows @ Aug 8 2006, 05:14 PM) [snapback]93637[/snapback]

so, i just got back from buying the rest of my materials. topsheet was 47 bucks for a 4x8 sheet of formica. thats enough to cover both of my boxes, with a little extra.
i got 5, 10 ft black steel pipe for 10 bucks a piece. so all together it was like 100 bucks (not including wood, cause i goot wood for free)
not bad. i guess


$100...not bad
mikey
i use ABS plastic and it works great! it isnt too expensive and my friends and i have only caught our edges in it 3 times over the past 3 years. of course it helps if u dull your edges a little. i bought enough for and 8ft long boxy by 8inches wide 3 years ago. i just bought another set a week ago for 53 dollars. heres the site

http://www.indplastic.com/index.cfm?fuseac...amp;product=173


oh and something i forgot you dont need cooping with this plastic. at least i dont have it and it works great. the plastic slides super nice ill post a video soon
DiMeThIcOnE
I recently built an 8 Ft flatbox and choose 1/4" clear plexiglass for my top sheet because I scored some for free. I also purchased 2 8ft 1" aluminum angle iron for coping. After flipping through some of the box building threads I noticed many people are against aluminum because its sticky and has potentiel to catch edges. I also seen somewhere in a post that plexiglass can be a little sticky.

Any advice on weither pr not I should use aluminum angle iron with the plexi glass. My origional plan for a top sheet was formica and steel angel iron until I scored the plexi and seen the price difference in aluminum and steel angle iron. I'm debating weither I should just put the plexi and angle iron on and see how she works when we get some snow or if I shouldn't bother using the aluminum.
Oakley21
before u do anything, make ur box longer. 8 ft will get boring in a hurry. you will get on it and before u know it you will be off of it...
DiMeThIcOnE
QUOTE(Oakley21 @ Nov 5 2006, 01:29 AM) [snapback]109353[/snapback]

before u do anything, make ur box longer. 8 ft will get boring in a hurry. you will get on it and before u know it you will be off of it...


I'm not worried about length right now. This is the first box I built and want to make sure it slides well with the materials I have. The frame is already built so extending it is out of the question and I would be really upset if I did extend it and my top material and coping didnt work nana.gif

I plan on building a longer box if this one works out well

So anyways back to the origional question. Aluminum angle iron coping and 1/4" plexi glass top sheet? Good or bad idea...
mikey
ok you are doing the same exact thing that i did when i built my first box. It was eight feet long and i used plexi glass and aluminum angle iron. Lets just say that it worked, but after the first season i got all new stuff. the aluminum works but u can catch your edge. if you have the money go out and buy ABS plastic. It works just like the mtn boxes and slides super nice. you dont need any angle iron then too. right now i have two 8ft boxes with abs plastic and im loving it. the problem is that your going to be spending about 50 bucks for the plastic.

heres the web site. i would suggest getting .25 and no thiner. the reason is so that you can counter sink your screws
Oakley21
website??
Oakley21
how do u think this stuff would slide, i have a sheet of it laying in my garage...its24''x40''... so i could make a 13 ft box at 6 in wide....just an idea...http://www.hockeygear.com/toshbo.html
DiMeThIcOnE
QUOTE(mikey @ Nov 5 2006, 06:48 PM) [snapback]109439[/snapback]

ok you are doing the same exact thing that i did when i built my first box. It was eight feet long and i used plexi glass and aluminum angle iron. Lets just say that it worked, but after the first season i got all new stuff. the aluminum works but u can catch your edge. if you have the money go out and buy ABS plastic. It works just like the mtn boxes and slides super nice. you dont need any angle iron then too. right now i have two 8ft boxes with abs plastic and im loving it. the problem is that your going to be spending about 50 bucks for the plastic.

heres the web site. i would suggest getting .25 and no thiner. the reason is so that you can counter sink your screws


How did the aluminum and plexi work for ya? Was it very sticky or very dangerous because of the soft aluminum sliding horizontally? I am going to use ABS plastic for the next box I build. You don't use any coping at all and don't run the risk of catching an edge with it?
pyro_boarder
QUOTE(Oakley21 @ Nov 5 2006, 06:30 PM) [snapback]109450[/snapback]

how do u think this stuff would slide, i have a sheet of it laying in my garage...its24''x40''... so i could make a 13 ft box at 6 in wide....just an idea...http://www.hockeygear.com/toshbo.html

That looks like it should slide fine, but I can't tell what kind of plastic it is. If its HDPE, ABS, PVC, etc. it would be great. If it's acrylic or Plexiglas it should be ok, but you would need coping.


Also, I plan on revising the FAQ soon. If anyone has any ideas or anything to add to improve the FAQ, it would be appreciated.
Oakley21
include a section of what materials you definetly need coping for and which ones you could get away without it...
DiMeThIcOnE
Holy fuck. I'm going to answer my own question for anyone else who ends up having the same question as up front as possible. DO NOT USE PLEXI GLASS OR ALUMINUM on a box at all! I slid my board accross the top of the box with my hands a few times and dug into the apparently butter soft angle iron without even trying as well as scratched the shit out of the unslippery plexi with whatever little bit of dirt or debree that was under my board or on the surface.

I'm taking the plexi and angle iron off and buying a sheet of ABS to use as a top sheet before the snow even comes for me to try what I have now.


DO NOT USE PLEXIGLASS OR ALUMINUM EVER. It will not resemble a mountain box.
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