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Things you like to see for the 2012/2013 ski season at Sno.


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I know, I know..the first item will be "More Snow",,lol.... but that is left to a higher power.

 

Just put down what you would like to see. I'm not gonna promise that everything will get done, but at least we have an idea of what areas might need to be addessed coming from the customers point of view.

 

I think we did good on some things, the 4/$50 deal..$10 Tuesday's..ect..and some other things I'm sure we screwed the pooch on, although not intenionally.

 

So..let's hear it!

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I'm not sure what to add. I think a high speed lift would be great, but not too sure if long haul is the place for it because its really only accessible from lower runway and lower fasttrack. So, I guess it would make most sense to make Phoebe and the lift by Nastar run as highspeed, because it would allow for accessibility to most terrain, but then require two lift rides to ski the full vert.

 

Haven't been there in two years, but the lights needed major improvement then.

 

I would also like speakers with music. Some will probably disagree but I really enjoy that and I think it makes the atmosphere more fun.

 

The lodge is far away from the North Face. How about turning some of that area off of Phoebe and on the parking lot an outdoor firepit with a bunch of adirondacks around it and maybe even drinks. Nothing big, but I think that would be really cool and I think people would use it a lot. There are many days when I would have hung out at the bar and drank, but didn't b/c my car was parked right next to Phoebe. Also, if right by Phoebe isn't conducive, then down by the patrol shack.

 

Edit: I realize my comments aren't related to snow quality, etc. I think that is because, other than the lifts and lights, Sno does as best it can. I think the biggest ways to draw crowds for Sno are (1) positive PR to get people to think Sno, and (2) up the atmosphere because the quality of snow and funness of trails is already there.

Edited by Melissa
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$10 tuesdays will keep me coming back. $10 lift ticket. $20 in the bar. worth it on your end if you get me up there.

 

This. Although I didn't take advantage of it this year (Tuesday's were tough) I will next year. Best deal in PA (next to the alien pass at CB).

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while a high speed lift would be nice I think that would be way down the road. What I think you can do is expand the terrain park to at least another trial have a big park and smalleler one Snake was basically unused at all this year so that would be a great spot andit was there in the past and is fun to watch from the lift. get rid o the parking lot ***** or at least tell them not to give people hard times when they want to park somewhere else or at the far end of the lot when there are spots open closer. As far as the summer keep pushing for that skatepark

 

Most important put a end to any rumors of closing or problems

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1. Instead of a high speed lift install a conveyor loading system. See.

It allows a fixed grip lift to be run at a higher speed and with less miss loads. For a mountain like sno a high speed lift isn't needed or probably appropriate. A conveyor however might be perfect.

2. Plant some trees ready NOW. I know they planted trees to the lookers right on the iron horse lift, but those that lived this first "winter" wont be 5' for at least 5-10 years. I think a smaller number of bigger trees similar to what was planted above the phobe lift would be better ascetically and as a wind break.

3. Farm snow. It blows up and off the mountain. Plant trees at the top in a ---___---- pattern. Allows skiers to pass through the trees (leave a snow cat vertical width) but allows you to use the trees as a snow fence and catch the snow that blows up the denuded trails by the iron horse.

4. Summer grooming - there are a lot of rocks on the head-walls and when the snow gets thin they pop through and are kicked up by groomers. You could pay someone 10 bucks and hour to move rocks and it would make the conditions a lot better. E.g. you could do more with less snow. (e.g. de-rock and stump rattler)

5. They cut down trees along the lift-line and left the trees just laying there. It looks terrible. Again pay someone a couple bucks to haul out all of the downed trees rather than letting it rot. Ride the phobe lift to know what i'm talking about.

6. Plant pine trees to shield the view of the maintenance area as you ride the phobe. 10-15 trees hide the junk yard that is the back of the maintenance building. It is visible from the lift and would vastly improve the aesthetic views on the phobe.

7. Get snowmaking additional training. They generally do a great job and I know it is a hard job. But, there is always at least one fan gun that they let blow ice. I think there were a few terrible icy days on boomer and white that were 100 % preventable. When it is 10 degree you should be blowing fine powder not ice. Teach the snowmakers to tweak the guns and maximize temp and nucleation. The fan gun system in place is awesome and when used right makes the best snow in PA. I'd like to see that more consistent.

8. allow more trails to get bumped up. When boomer bumped this year it was a hit. Maybe upper mountain???

9. On powder days don't groom out everything. This happened last year (sadly no pow days this year) when played hooky and came up to find the groomers had buffed every trail out. What is the harm of letting people ski powder on a couple trails. Ok groom cannonball and lower runaway, but leave the rest. market it as powder days I guarantee people will love it!!!

10. Look at what jack frost is doing with their glades terrain. Some summer maintenance would do wonders.

 

Just some ideas off the top of my head. They've done a much better job this year with a lot - e.g. long haul improved lodge food. But there is a lot of room to build on.

 

VTY

 

Snoskier

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1. Instead of a high speed lift install a conveyor loading system. See. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zTTSzgyzKA It allows a fixed grip lift to be run at a higher speed and with less miss loads. For a mountain like sno a high speed lift isn't needed or probably appropriate. A conveyor however might be perfect.

2. Plant some trees ready NOW. I know they planted trees to the lookers right on the iron horse lift, but those that lived this first "winter" wont be 5' for at least 5-10 years. I think a smaller number of bigger trees similar to what was planted above the phobe lift would be better ascetically and as a wind break.

3. Farm snow. It blows up and off the mountain. Plant trees at the top in a ---___---- pattern. Allows skiers to pass through the trees (leave a snow cat vertical width) but allows you to use the trees as a snow fence and catch the snow that blows up the denuded trails by the iron horse.

4. Summer grooming - there are a lot of rocks on the head-walls and when the snow gets thin they pop through and are kicked up by groomers. You could pay someone 10 bucks and hour to move rocks and it would make the conditions a lot better. E.g. you could do more with less snow. (e.g. de-rock and stump rattler)

5. They cut down trees along the lift-line and left the trees just laying there. It looks terrible. Again pay someone a couple bucks to haul out all of the downed trees rather than letting it rot. Ride the phobe lift to know what i'm talking about.

6. Plant pine trees to shield the view of the maintenance area as you ride the phobe. 10-15 trees hide the junk yard that is the back of the maintenance building. It is visible from the lift and would vastly improve the aesthetic views on the phobe.

7. Get snowmaking additional training. They generally do a great job and I know it is a hard job. But, there is always at least one fan gun that they let blow ice. I think there were a few terrible icy days on boomer and white that were 100 % preventable. When it is 10 degree you should be blowing fine powder not ice. Teach the snowmakers to tweak the guns and maximize temp and nucleation. The fan gun system in place is awesome and when used right makes the best snow in PA. I'd like to see that more consistent.

8. allow more trails to get bumped up. When boomer bumped this year it was a hit. Maybe upper mountain???

9. On powder days don't groom out everything. This happened last year (sadly no pow days this year) when played hooky and came up to find the groomers had buffed every trail out. What is the harm of letting people ski powder on a couple trails. Ok groom cannonball and lower runaway, but leave the rest. market it as powder days I guarantee people will love it!!!

10. Look at what jack frost is doing with their glades terrain. Some summer maintenance would do wonders.

 

Just some ideas off the top of my head. They've done a much better job this year with a lot - e.g. long haul improved lodge food. But there is a lot of room to build on.

 

VTY

 

Snoskier

 

How much faster can you run the lift with the conveyor belt? Just wondering. It seems a little silly to me but I guess it makes sense if you can run the lift faster. But ditto on the trees.

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Nice...keep it coming...and yeah, I knew the HSL was gonna come into play. A few years ago, and this can be just speculation/rumor, there was talk of adding a new lift to replace LH that would coincide with a planned slope expansion from the Glades down that side of the mountain and finishing up in the apx area of the LH loading station...again...speculation and maybe some thinking out loud going on, but it is a novel idea...doable, but will take a ton of $$ to pull off.

 

Melissa, I like your idea a lot about the pavilion/snack/fireplace area at the top of Pheobe..even though it's more a cosmetic fix it still would be a good addition.

 

Lighting is being worked on..we're aware of those issues..we have a new electrician that has been painstakingly doing rewiring and replacing, concentrating on the lodge/base area first and will go from there.

 

Ok...and not to get focused on just the HSL as we all know that is the mother of all topics when we look for suggestions....trust me, it's duly noted....what else? BTW, plan on seeing the $10 Tuesdays again....that was one of those promotions that no one believed at first..until it was plastered on billboards all over the region and we stuck with it all season.

 

Let me ask...are you guys happy with the FB stuff we've been doing? I know I bombed the page with around 2000 pics since the season started and I would like for it to continue but like anything else I don't want it to go stale...ideas' for that?

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1. Instead of a high speed lift install a conveyor loading system. See. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zTTSzgyzKA It allows a fixed grip lift to be run at a higher speed and with less miss loads. For a mountain like sno a high speed lift isn't needed or probably appropriate. A conveyor however might be perfect.

 

Interesting concept...thanks for the vid.

 

2. Plant some trees ready NOW. I know they planted trees to the lookers right on the iron horse lift, but those that lived this first "winter" wont be 5' for at least 5-10 years. I think a smaller number of bigger trees similar to what was planted above the phobe lift would be better ascetically and as a wind break.

 

I agree with this and in hindsight it was a bad decision to take the trees down. They have hybrid Pines that now grow 10 to 15 feet A YEAR that would help here.

 

3. Farm snow. It blows up and off the mountain. Plant trees at the top in a ---___---- pattern. Allows skiers to pass through the trees (leave a snow cat vertical width) but allows you to use the trees as a snow fence and catch the snow that blows up the denuded trails by the iron horse.

 

Noted

 

4. Summer grooming - there are a lot of rocks on the head-walls and when the snow gets thin they pop through and are kicked up by groomers. You could pay someone 10 bucks and hour to move rocks and it would make the conditions a lot better. E.g. you could do more with less snow. (e.g. de-rock and stump rattler)

 

Noted & passed along

 

5. They cut down trees along the lift-line and left the trees just laying there. It looks terrible. Again pay someone a couple bucks to haul out all of the downed trees rather than letting it rot. Ride the phobe lift to know what i'm talking about.

 

Would also make good firewood for tubing..and yes..I've seen it close up as sometimes I hike down the lift line.

 

6. Plant pine trees to shield the view of the maintenance area as you ride the phobe. 10-15 trees hide the junk yard that is the back of the maintenance building. It is visible from the lift and would vastly improve the aesthetic views on the phobe.

 

Lol..junk yard, but yeah..unfortunatly all places have that one area that needs to be hidden...that is ours. Since Pheobe was put in AFTER the maintenance building was placed there it's kinda in full view, but...good idea...passed along.

7. Get snowmaking additional training. They generally do a great job and I know it is a hard job. But, there is always at least one fan gun that they let blow ice. I think there were a few terrible icy days on boomer and white that were 100 % preventable. When it is 10 degree you should be blowing fine powder not ice. Teach the snowmakers to tweak the guns and maximize temp and nucleation. The fan gun system in place is awesome and when used right makes the best snow in PA. I'd like to see that more consistent.

 

I hear you, but at the same time sometimes the temps will fluctuate just that little bit and before we know it we have a water cannon instead of a snow gun. Our snowmaking guys are trained and retrained on the system yearly so sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time to catch a problem. Not an excuse here but we have 280 guns counting the wands and portables so once in a great while it's runs away from us. I think they did a fantastic job, evident opening weekend..Saturday we had to hike to Iron Horse....Sunday there was 4 feet of snow on the trail....not bad....but thanks, good observation.

 

8. allow more trails to get bumped up. When boomer bumped this year it was a hit. Maybe upper mountain???

 

Agreed...I took some awesome shots of Boomer when it was super bumped...have to admit it makes hiking down the slope a lot easier as well for me..and like you guys I was hoping the cat drivers forgot how to find the slope. As far as the upper mountain...hmm..don't know, a lot of beginner/intermediat skiers use it, even upper RUnaway and Fastrack as it's so wide and the beginning of the slopes are not that steep, so...may be just one of those features we leave for the expert terrain.

 

9. On powder days don't groom out everything. This happened last year (sadly no pow days this year) when played hooky and came up to find the groomers had buffed every trail out. What is the harm of letting people ski powder on a couple trails. Ok groom cannonball and lower runaway, but leave the rest. market it as powder days I guarantee people will love it!!!

 

Good idea.

 

10. Look at what jack frost is doing with their glades terrain. Some summer maintenance would do wonders.

 

Noted

 

Just some ideas off the top of my head. They've done a much better job this year with a lot - e.g. long haul improved lodge food. But there is a lot of room to build on.

 

Agreed...food was really a step up and even the bar was a tremendous hit..and...you are right..there is ALWAYS room for improvement. Thank You for the time in this and the interest.

 

VTY

 

Snoskier

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while a high speed lift would be nice I think that would be way down the road. What I think you can do is expand the terrain park to at least another trial have a big park and smalleler one Snake was basically unused at all this year so that would be a great spot andit was there in the past and is fun to watch from the lift. get rid o the parking lot ***** or at least tell them not to give people hard times when they want to park somewhere else or at the far end of the lot when there are spots open closer. As far as the summer keep pushing for that skatepark

 

Most important put a end to any rumors of closing or problems

 

I can't deny that this has been an issue with the mountain as far as rumors of "Doom", as I put it. Then again you have to look at the history and all the political nonsense that the mountain has been tied up in from the county owned days. Also, that article that that one certain newspaper printed on us in October was a suckerpunch as far as I'm concerned and everytime they came up this year they did everything they could to paint us in a bad light, even the pics they took were rotten & downright unprofessional from my pov. I have my own personal theory as to why they creamed us, and it all has to do with us shutting power down in October to do line maintenance & a certain radio station getting knocked off the air...but..I will keep that to myself but knowing the connections of said media people & the political corruption of this region, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

 

Also, this forum here has been a breeding ground of rumors as well....in the past. I admit it's a whole different attitude now that people see we're doing our best and we accomplished what we said we were going to do this past season, but we have taken a beating..and there are still one or two here that keep bringing up real old issues just to try to stir the pot. Negativity around these parts is overwhelming and people thrive on it...if Negativity was an Olympic sport we would have Gold Medals the size of manhole covers.

 

All I ask is, if you have a question ....ask. Don't make things up and don't add to a story if you don't know the facts. Remember, you are talking about a ski resort and business that is effected by things sometimes out of our control, like weather, but we take doing our jobs very seriously and do our best for everyone.

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Just to be clear I dont need to be convinced Sno did that this season with the improvements made already and the effort in snow making with the terrable weather this year. I was refering to the public perception of people who dont go there. I can't begin to count how many times after telling someone about skiing at sno their responce would be " i didnt think they would still be open" and I would say the problems were behind them. Some good press about the future would hopefully change the public image.

 

I had a great time every weekend and a couple tuesday nights this year and I am thinking about getting passes for next year based on this year

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I have a soft spot for Sno/Montage, i skied there on the very first day they were open in 1984. As i step back and take a look from an outsider point of view, I think you guys need to find a niche and use it to attract those skiers. For instance, Elk is old school, old lodge, old lifts, and just simply a skiers mountain. Super snow and grooming, that's their gig. But they refuse to open glades or put a high speed in. And I'm fine with all that. Blue's the opposite in most ways except its rare they ever have condtions anywhere close to decent. If I owned Sno, i'd start with the best glade runs short of VT, promote bumps on boomer and/or WL and speed up long haul. The first two wont cost much but the gamble is on the high speed lift. Otherwise your snow making and grooming are really good and needs to be kept that way. Good luck for next year!

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But they refuse to open glades or put a high speed in.

 

in my opinion elk would be the bomb if they had Frost's very liberal "ski anywhere" policy. so if sno was to have some tree skiing, i would skip elk for sno.

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Just to be clear I dont need to be convinced Sno did that this season with the improvements made already and the effort in snow making with the terrable weather this year. I was refering to the public perception of people who dont go there. I can't begin to count how many times after telling someone about skiing at sno their responce would be " i didnt think they would still be open" and I would say the problems were behind them. Some good press about the future would hopefully change the public image.

 

I had a great time every weekend and a couple tuesday nights this year and I am thinking about getting passes for next year based on this year

 

Yeah..I hear you...even now as in yesterday i had a guy ask "You mean they were open?"

 

!!

 

We figured it would be a good idea to bomb the facebook page and stay on it constantly with updates several times a day to try to combat the perception of being closed, and...it did work. This was something that was not done in the past. I'm a FB wiz and use it to promote my business and it increased mine by 38% and I was sure it would work for Sno. One thing people need to see are pics and I made sure they had them, every weekend new folders, even that silly one tagged "Lift Follies" was a real big hit.

 

I remember back last Fall when were still hearing on this site about the lack of people at Sno..until I bombed the topic with like 40 or so pics showing that yes...there are people on the mountain..LOT's OF PEOPLE ,on any given weekend. Those pics silenced a lot of critics at that point and made people realise that yes..we do have a great customer base.

 

Media relations def needs a step up..but..forget the newspapers. That one that did the article about our so called issues didn't even have the decency to print, even on the back page..that we opened. The billboards worked nicely, FB def worked..went from 300 likes to over 3000 this season alone..and....since I ask people where they heard about whatever we happen to be doing..they have mentioned this site as well.

 

"Winter".....I like the idea of specialising in Glades. I'm an old school Mountain Biker who loves single track riding, and I imagine Glade sking to be akin to that. Developing a niche' in todays market is really not a bad idea, some may say you are compartmentalising too much..and with Sno being real close to a metropolitian customer base, we need to be careful that we don't scare the locals away, but having that something special would be neat.

 

"JF skiDan"....Again..single tracking comes to mind, but I will ask about it. Laying out a trail course would take time, and..like I stated in the past, i don't have the authority to say yes, but I will pass this along to the boss (he reads this everyday anyway, so he'll see it I'm sure) There may be some insurance issues as well with this, so..it may be more involved.

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  • 2 months later...

On the Billboards topic: You need to think about where they're going to be being seen from and how fonts/color choices look from a distance and in different light conditions.

 

The one I saw looked nice (either on 380 or 81, can't remember where), but the important part, the NAME of the place you're advertising, was in a font and color that was very hard to read from actually driving on the highway. (I think it was in that lighter blue you sometimes use on other materials).

 

Most people driving past would likely have never actually found out what the billboard was for.

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On the Billboards topic: You need to think about where they're going to be being seen from and how fonts/color choices look from a distance and in different light conditions.

 

The one I saw looked nice (either on 380 or 81, can't remember where), but the important part, the NAME of the place you're advertising, was in a font and color that was very hard to read from actually driving on the highway. (I think it was in that lighter blue you sometimes use on other materials).

 

Most people driving past would likely have never actually found out what the billboard was for.

 

Noted and thanks for the observation...sometimes we get into that "tunnel vision" mindset on colors and insist on using the company flag colors as it were, and while it looks good on a monitor, it may get washed out on a billboard, esp the new LED ones when the sun hits it. I'll pass this along to our art dept.

 

While we're at it...some of the groudskeeping suggestions made earlier as far as getting rid of some rocks and other things brought up are moving along. With an unexpected but welcome surge in off season mountain activities happening now or coming up (the water park is off the charts as far as attendance, esp these past few days, plus the Allman Bros Band Concert/Peach Festival on the mountain and the camping we're allowing....plus the Mudfest...."Stoketoberfest"...ect later on...we're busy. I'm also personally involved in bringing a venue to the mountain that might add to our Fall festivities and if it works out well, it will be added as a permanent attraction in '13.

Edited by KCSKI
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Mobstr_London_Visual-Pollution_July11_1000.jpg

 

the LED shit is even worse. the one on 80 by the kenworth truck depot up by CB is terrible. our town just put one in as well. they repplaced a real nice brick wall/welcome sign with a LED billboard selling dog treats. fuck billboards.

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I

Shadows if you don't like Billboards move to Vernont. Billboards are not allowed in the entire state. I like Billboards, gives me something to look at when I'm driving of I'm not eating, texting or watching YouTube videos.

I didn't know that.

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