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Chair incident


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2 minutes ago, saltyant said:

"If a skier were to ride a chairlift 100 million miles, they would have a 0.17 percent chance of being killed."

that's further than the sun lol

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18 minutes ago, skiincy said:

I would assume that we would be just as critical if it happened at Blue.. It's a serious incident. It's not just complaining about grooming and parking lots. 

 

Ski resorts are responsible for maintaining equipment, slopes, and ski lifts to prevent injuries. I get that parts break but it still seems like Camelback is at fault. The Camelback waiver (here) covers inherent risk. In short:

  • It's inherently dangerous so use caution.
  • Patrons have a duty to exercise good judgment and act in a responsible manner.
  • Other risks include, but are not limited to: slips and falls, risk of drowning, and other inherent risks associated with amusement rides, swimming and wading pools and other attractions, wet and dry, that present the risk of injury or death.

However, chairlifts coming off of a cable is not an inherent risk. There is a Skier’s Responsibility Act in 42 Pa. C.S. §7102. Check it out. 

In other cases, the courts seem to decide what is an inherent risk

Some sites say "If the skiing accident was caused by anything other than an “inherent risk” – such as a failure to provide safe equipment – the injured skier might be entitled to damages."

 

I'm not a lawyer but I read and deal with a lot of contracts at work regarding liability. I wouldn't think the responsibility code applies to lifts. Skiers have a responsibility to ski in control and avoid obvious and common obstacles. The ski areas have a responsibility to provide safe lifts. Skiers have a reasonable expectation that the lifts are safe.  That said; all machines can have unexpected break downs regardless of the how carefully they are maintained. Parts are inspected but some flaws are not seeable to the naked eye like hair line cracks or internal flaws in a casting.

In today's litigious enviorment no doubt someone will pay. But until the experts including the lift manufacturer determine the cause I would not automatically blame Camelback.  And unfounded rumors like someone dying should not be repeated and should be deleted. And I'm no Camelback fanboy.

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17 minutes ago, saltyant said:

Someone on social media is implying blame because there weren't more lift attendants on staff... ???

Armchair experts that know nothing about how the equipment in question operates. See it every time there is a roller coaster or amusement ride accident.

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Heh, IDK why everybody calls CB a circus and yet acts like they're in circus themselves.

Some Montreal guy on FB is yelling on top of his lungs in caps: "STATEMENT, I WANNA SEE A STATEMENT".

Then comes a statement, and another disgruntled bystander: "IT'S TOO SHORT, THERE SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE!", "TELL US WHAT YOU DID FOR THE VICTIMS". And so on, and so on... "Why do you still call for folks to go ski at your place?" "Why are you still running your other lifts?" "Roll over and die already and use your parking money for your own funerals."

Ugh.

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7 minutes ago, eaf said:

Heh, IDK why everybody calls CB a circus and yet acts like they're in circus themselves.

Some Montreal guy on FB is yelling on top of his lungs in caps: "STATEMENT, I WANNA SEE A STATEMENT".

Then comes a statement, and another disgruntled bystander: "IT'S TOO SHORT, THERE SHOULD'VE BEEN MORE!", "TELL US WHAT YOU DID FOR THE VICTIMS". And so on, and so on... "Why do you still call for folks to go ski at your place?" "Why are you still running your other lifts?" "Roll over and die already and use your parking money for your own funerals."

Ugh.

I guess people feel personally wronged since it could have been them on that lift? The social media pitchforks are out in full force. Like Steeze said, though, people have short memories and itll likely be all but forgotten by first civilian chair in November or December 2021.

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8 minutes ago, enjoralas said:

Armchair experts that know nothing about how the equipment in question operates. See it every time there is a roller coaster or amusement ride accident.

Exactly. It wasn't like the chair fell off because they didn't load properly. What was an extra lift attendant going to do? Ride the rope and hold the chair on the line?

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1 hour ago, skiincy said:

I get that parts break but it still seems like Camelback is at fault. 

 

How so?  what do you know that nobody else knows?  And i dont get how the skiers responsibility code applies to the lift, so help me understand that as well.  

1 hour ago, trackbiker said:

I'm not a lawyer but I read and deal with a lot of contracts at work regarding liability. I wouldn't think the responsibility code applies to lifts. Skiers have a responsibility to ski in control and avoid obvious and common obstacles. The ski areas have a responsibility to provide safe lifts. Skiers have a reasonable expectation that the lifts are safe.  That said; all machines can have unexpected break downs regardless of the how carefully they are maintained. Parts are inspected but some flaws are not seeable to the naked eye like hair line cracks or internal flaws in a casting.

In today's litigious enviorment no doubt someone will pay. But until the experts including the lift manufacturer determine the cause I would not automatically blame Camelback.  And unfounded rumors like someone dying should not be repeated and should be deleted. And I'm no Camelback fanboy.

Spot on.  

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Lift accidents happen. Rare as they are. Wait to see what an independent investigation finds. Lift inspection and maintenance is an area where the people responsible are often way overworked and under compensated, or lack specific technical expertise. 

Edited by EdBacon
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7 minutes ago, saltyant said:

I guess people feel personally wronged since it could have been them on that lift? The social media pitchforks are out in full force. Like Steeze said, though, people have short memories and itll likely be all but forgotten by first civilian chair in November or December 2021.

Yeah, especially that Montreal guy. Feels personally wronged 'cause he could've been there. Unfortunately most seem to be using this as an opportunity to let out steam on other issues they have been having with CB and are not free of sarcasm either.

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all this talk about chairs falling from the sky but you can bet your ass i'll be on their lifts if they're open later than blue and do the alien passholder thing.

Edited by Benm
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45 minutes ago, EdBacon said:

They still have the Stevenson running despite it being almost identical to the Sullivan. I would think they'd also suspend operations on that but guess not. 

The odds of a chair falling off the cable on two different chairs at the ski resort is super slim.  That would be extremely cautious of them to not run the Stevenson lift.  

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13 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

The odds of a chair falling off the cable on two different chairs at the ski resort is super slim.  That would be extremely cautious of them to not run the Stevenson lift.  

Try putting that in a statement to the public. Best to err on the side of caution even if its overkill for the time being. Bring somebody in to look over the Stevenson and say it's all good before restarting. Will help assuage some people. 

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19 minutes ago, Benm said:

all this talk about chairs falling from the sky but you can bet your ass i'll be on their lifts if they're open later than blue and do the alien passholder thing.

 

16 minutes ago, GrilledSteezeSandwich said:

The odds of a chair falling off the cable on two different chairs at the ski resort is super slim.  That would be extremely cautious of them to not run the Stevenson lift.  

I think the alien pass probability is just as slim. 

1 minute ago, EdBacon said:

Bring somebody in to look over the Stevenson and say it's all good before restarting. Will help assuage some people. 

Absolutely.  Have someone outside of CB deem it safe.  

 

Lets not all forget that ski lifts are inspected, what, every year before opening?  Who does that?  the state?

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11 minutes ago, JFskiDan said:

 

 

Lets not all forget that ski lifts are inspected, what, every year before opening?  Who does that?  the state?

The state inspects yearly but the resort should be doing routine inspections for different things on weekly/daily basis as well.

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35 minutes ago, EdBacon said:

Try putting that in a statement to the public. Best to err on the side of caution even if its overkill for the time being. Bring somebody in to look over the Stevenson and say it's all good before restarting. Will help assuage some people. 

Really should be someone from the lift company to check out the failure.
Was it just a bad cast of a part which would make the odds of the same thing happening on another chair/lift unlikely or was it some other type of issue with the lift tower rollers or something.

Far too many variables for speculation.

Lift manufacturers know it best and should be brought on site to check it out first.

Edited by indiggio
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1 hour ago, JFskiDan said:

Lets not all forget that ski lifts are inspected, what, every year before opening?  Who does that?  the state?

I've been curious about it, so I've gotten in a rabbit hole.... 

Started by reading this Outside article with a clickbait title (https://www.outsideonline.com/2069911/your-local-chairlift-death-trap).

Sounds like Pennsylvania has inspectors and defines who can. 

Here are some Pennsylvania codes associated within "Elevator and Tramway Safety." http://www.pacodeandbulletin.gov/secure/pacode/data/034/chapter7/034_0007.pdf

Page 132 outlines the maintenance requirements for Pennsylvania. In short:

  1. Inspections are once a year. Looks like it's about $3k per lift. https://www.dli.pa.gov/Individuals/Labor-Management-Relations/bois/fee-schedules/Pages/Fees-for-Elevators-and-Lifting-Devices.aspx
  2. Rope & cable inspections (intervals shouldn't be longer than those recommended by the track cable manufacturer)
  3. They have to outline their procedures, which include daily procedures that require. For the longer version, it includes things like:
    • The type of lubricant and frequency of lubrication of each element involving moving parts.
    • Stipulate that parts showing excessive wear shall be replaced immediately and, if possible, establish yardsticks to define excessive wear.
    • include a schedule for checking and tightening all bolts especially on rope attachments.
    • maintenance schedule shall establish a specific period of time which will represent one complete cycle of maintenance operations, including all component parts, assigning a time within such cycle for the maintenance work on each component.
    • The schedule shall include a daily check of all normal operating brakes, all communications, and all stopping devices, both manual and automatic.
    • A daily check shall also be made to assure that the counterweight sheaves are free to turn.
    • periodic checks of all emergency brakes.
    • signed complete log or diary shall be kept of the actual execution of maintenance work recorded daily
    • Such log shall not only state that the component is given attention on that day, but also the condition of the component if it shows any signs of deterioration, and also the replacement of any components
    • daily record of the position of all counterweights and bull wheel carriages
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I guess people feel personally wronged since it could have been them on that lift? The social media pitchforks are out in full force. Like Steeze said, though, people have short memories and itll likely be all but forgotten by first civilian chair in November or December 2021.

I'm no defender of social media jackassness however I think a lot of time there's a typical gut reaction in people to seeing something that triggers an immediate response without thinking. Seeing kids lying on the snow, probably in pain, and with medics surrounding them after the ski lift they were sitting on just fell 20 or 30 feet is one of those things that'll have you immediately saying "someone needs to be held accountable for this" or whatever. I'll admit I did when I saw those pictures. This is why society needs level headed, logical people who are able to set emotions aside and get to the bottom of stuff.
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