ThinkSnow Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I haven't completely lost faith in CB yet. Like any other place, they have positives and negatives. Call it foolish, but I'm hoping the building of this hotel will motivate CB to do all they can to stay open later in the coming seasons... after all- spring break business is big money... Maybe it'll even get them to think about more coverage earlier in the season, to make the resort more desireable to families vactioning over christmas break. They need motivation from somewhere... Honestly, I think that if the new management doesn't "get it" then they'll be gone soon as well. Its sort of like the golf facility I work at now. They start a bunch of different projects that they think will bring in more money, but they don't do it wholeheartedly, and because of that they don't get the returns that they could. Lets think what CB could do to stake a solid claim as being far and away the best mountain in the poconos: 1.) First and foremost- Get open that one to one and a half weeks early. If CB was the first or second mountain to open it would help greatly. Cost: approximately $20,000. 2.) Upgrade the park to compete with Blue or Bear Creek. They have the terrain, they just need to upgrade the jibs and give the park crew some more free reign, or bring in some new park builders. Cost: approximately $10,000. 3.) Stay open those 3 days a year that you usually close during the season. Cost: approximately $5,000. These costs are really rough estimates from someone without much experience on the business end of the industry. Lets break this down though. Say CB averages 2,000 skiers a day. Average cost of a ticket: I'll go low and say $20, averaging in all season passes that have been purchased and used that day. That is $40,000 a day in revenue. This is more than enough to cover these costs. I know there are operating expenses, but I'm sure 40k can be made up rather quickly. Just some food for thought... Please don't take this as me sticking up for CB, because that's really not it, but... I think you're numbers are way off. I don't think you have any idea what it costs to run a ski area, and I think you're just pulling numbers out of the air for your own purposes. It's well stated that CB caters to the once or twice a year folks. I don't think they're in the business of having a skier's mountain as much as they are in providing a place for people to come and drop a bunch of money for a couple hours of time. That ideology basically argues against all 3 of your points above. As much as I'd like it to be different, that seems like the way they approach their business, and that's why I don't go there much any more Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 It's well stated that CB caters to the once or twice a year folks. I don't think they're in the business of having a skier's mountain as much as they are in providing a place for people to come and drop a bunch of money for a couple hours of time. That ideology basically argues against all 3 of your points above. As much as I'd like it to be different, that seems like the way they approach their business, and that's why I don't go there much any more Just my 2 cents. It doesn't just seem that way, it is that way! right on down to noobs in the parking lot who ask if you had a good time and why are you leaving so early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdew Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 so what day are you closing? tomorrow? I hope so for your sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I hope so for your sake. so how many days on the snow do you get a year? are they all at Camelback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I also realize that your main role is to single handedly try to destroy the place you have sent a large chunk of your money to (not very smart), but, try to remember...the better CB does, the better our experiences there will be....eventually. that is wrong.... I want to point out how misleading they are about thier information and ask them to stop it! The park pass program which I am stoked for has a silly video showing inverts as not being reccomended. It is my understanding that inverts are not allowed at CB. so why wouldn't the park pass video say that. What about the first paragraph in several marketing pieces stating new rails? if it is so important to mention it first, then why don't they put them out? Closing, they don't even try one little bit to stay open extra. Snow making.. they say they have state of the art snow making... I can't tell. Now we got Brian in Marketing talking about April... why would he talk about April if there is no way they will be open then? I read the stuff they advertise, I have been steadily let down and disappointed while others have more than met or exceeded the expectations set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdew Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 so how many days on the snow do you get a year? are they all at Camelback? 25-30 and no. All but a week out West are at CB. I like the place. It has its faults, like everywhere else. I have a choice as does everyone. I choose to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Papa, I don't understand where you get this stuff. The "misleading" information may be subject to interpretation. You have to realize that if CB "advertises" something, they have full intention on implementing it. Obviously, this will have some flexibility due to unforceable circumstances such as; weather, interest, permits, land rights, tree huggers, and etc. You probably have some specific examples, but, you get my point. Every business "exagerates" some to generate interest. Nothing is set in stone, and it is always "adjustable." CB did not produce the Park pass video. It was purchased and is pretty standardized. My feeling is, inverted maneuvers will come eventually, it just might take a few years. Alot of places are still against them. Staying open is a catch 22. Yes, the pass holders are happy, but, from a "business" and "profit" point of view, it is not fiscally sound. I do get the impression that this will change a bit once the hotel is a factor. Fact: cant make if it is not cold. They really want to, but, temps have been very marginal. Admittedly, the system could use some attention, but, they have been adding quite a bit of new guns, hose, and various other things that really add up $! April has been talked about. The waterpark is not as much of a factor as you think (believe me, I know!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 If you really feel the need to blow a whistle...go ahead. I'm all for everyone promoting smartstyle and the responsibility code. Obviously, you need to be respectful in doing so, but, have at it. As for the hazing....lets just say.....I get a little crazy when I hear whistles blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Would ski patrol at Camelback care if I skied around blowing a whistle at people not following smartstyle??? Is the hazing really as bad as I've heard about to become a red coat??? I used to spend quite a bit of time at CB with someone that carried a bell attached to a ski pole---it was a GET THE F*CK OUT OF MY WAY bell. Worked a little like a whistle. Pretty sure that person is a PASRer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Staying open is a catch 22. Yes, the pass holders are happy, but, from a "business" and "profit" point of view, it is not fiscally sound. It's actually not that difficult to break even on a wet, dead day. We do it at least three or four times a season and it's no big deal. You make it sound like it's some huge production to run two lifts and a skeleton staff. Our annual budget is $125,000....I find it a little hard to believe we're the cutting edge of poor weather ski operations and that CB can't seem to figure it out. I suspect there's been a little brainwashing done over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skizilla Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Would ski patrol at Camelback care if I skied around blowing a whistle at people not following smartstyle??? Is the hazing really as bad as I've heard about to become a red coat??? I think you would have to worry about the Rangers more than the Ski Patrol. BTW I think the training alone as well as the candidate period is rough enough for becomming a patroller. They don't need to have any hazing. I used to spend quite a bit of time at CB with someone that carried a bell attached to a ski pole---it was a GET THE F*CK OUT OF MY WAY bell. Worked a little like a whistle. Pretty sure that person is a PASRer.... I've skiied with people wearing bells before and it does get everyone's attention. When I'm overtaking a snowboarder that has their back to me I will tap my poles together to let them know I'm there. That usually works too. Of course there is always the 'on you left' or 'on your right'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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