Papasteeze Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Maybe it's me or maybe the search function. I scoured the USSA website trying to learn something and thought I would do some searches on 10 yr males. It seems that everyone of them has 990 points. is this correct? If it is, how is a J4 or their parents for that matter supposed to see how they are doing comparitively? Also, I am not turning up any 11yr old freestylers - I found a few that competed in the Tahoe area but it seems that in freestyle the more points the better and in racing the less points the better. USSA is all very new to me, so all you "old school" people cut me some slack and some patience and understanding. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 For racing only people over 14 years old can get points (or lose points from 999). 14 year olds have a few races a year they can lose points, 15+ every race is a points race. That is why they don't have anything on pointslists. As far as searching stuff on there, have fun, they have a very poor website to find anything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 For racing only people over 14 years old can get points (or lose points from 999).14 year olds have a few races a year they can lose points, 15+ every race is a points race. That is why they don't have anything on pointslists. As far as searching stuff on there, have fun, they have a very poor website to find anything.... 25743[/snapback] Thanks dude, that confirms it for me!!! It is what I thought. For a moment, I thought I was stupid.. I have heard numerous times that if you don't have anything nice to say, then keep quiet. Can you hear the silence?? Now the noise... Ok - I think I understand this. If you are a 14 yr old and under Junior ski racer, you aint s--t (in the racing communitys' eyes) if you are not racing USSA courses. If you race nothing but USSA races you never know where you rate/rank unless you ski where? So - a kid skis his heart out at his little home mountain going to a few state or regional races, does well but then he/she and his parents find out that when they are 14 that you still are at the bottom of the point list? There is no ranking, no point list, no nothing to shoot at? Ok I think I am learning how this works. whether or not I agreee with it, I can guarantee this. We won't be traipsing all over the country to race in scoreless races. We will just find tough courses and compatible coaches. Are there even any recognitions for winning 14 yr and under race? Bragging really seems to be looked down upon. So bragging rights aren't cool in ski racing, what is? The competition and fun we had at PC will be unforgettable - Does the USSA program have anything to compare to that? Please remember, all you hardened racers, I am brand spanking new to this whole community. Be patient to my questions and comments and try to be encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Rob, in no way do race teams think of J3-J5s as sh*t. They don't have points, because they system is set up that only J1-J2s can get points. Now it was switched to second year J3s can get points at a few races. If you wanted it your way, so Ridge could get points, that would mean that a) there would be really no age divisions, because J1/2s always race together, and use points for seeding, there would be about 400 people in every race, (because there would be no age groups), and c)Many many many of the younger racers would be scared to death of racing, if they don't die. Can you imagine having Ridge ski down a course after 150 guys my size tear it to shreads? He would get tossed out pretty quickly, just because the ruts would be up to his face. You can't really say well only J3-5s can go to this race, because if it turns out to be a good points race, you cannot explain why the older kids couldn't be there. As far as awards and such, there is awards (nice trophies, medals, all that stuff), and there are JOs for J4/5s and J3s, so they can go just as far (well they don't have high school championships) as a J1/2. Not too sure how they determan how J-lil people go to JOs, I think it has to do with there top finishes at a few races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Also, just remember everyone starts out at the bottom of the pack...Everyone. Even your hero, Durggy-man Bode started with 990 points, and ya gotta work your way up. Prove yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) it's a very similar situation in many sports...often times young kids who have true talent don't get recognized, because their parents don't make enough money to ship them all over the country to compete. As a kid growing up surfing in the OCSA and ESA I saw a lot of poor kids who were just as good as me if not better never get recognized because they couldn't afford to travel up and down the east coast earning points. Edited April 25, 2005 by poconoceancity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Rob, in no way do race teams think of J3-J5s as sh*t. They don't have points, because they system is set up that only J1-J2s can get points. Now it was switched to second year J3s can get points at a few races. If you wanted it your way, so Ridge could get points, that would mean that a) there would be really no age divisions, because J1/2s always race together, and use points for seeding, there would be about 400 people in every race, (because there would be no age groups), and c)Many many many of the younger racers would be scared to death of racing, if they don't die. Can you imagine having Ridge ski down a course after 150 guys my size tear it to shreads? He would get tossed out pretty quickly, just because the ruts would be up to his face. You can't really say well only J3-5s can go to this race, because if it turns out to be a good points race, you cannot explain why the older kids couldn't be there. As far as awards and such, there is awards (nice trophies, medals, all that stuff), and there are JOs for J4/5s and J3s, so they can go just as far (well they don't have high school championships) as a J1/2. Not too sure how they determan how J-lil people go to JOs, I think it has to do with there top finishes at a few races. 25757[/snapback] AHH ha - Ok that makes sense. Question: How long has this racing format been around? Any insight on why the USSA program hasn't picked up on the Nastar format? Or am I trend setting? BTW- did you ever get a chance to see that V1 video of the 8 year old? HOLY CRAP!! Thats what Ridge likes to watch over and over and over and over.. USSA doesn't have anything like that. regardless of the difficulty of the course I hope they keep attracting that caliber of skier in the pursuing years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 it's a very similar situation in many sports...often times young kids who have true talent don't get recognized, because their parents don't make enough money to ship them all over the country to compete. As a kid growing up surfing in the OCSA and ESA I saw a lot of poor kids who were just as good as me if not better never get recognized because they couldn't afford to travel up and down the east coast earning points. 25760[/snapback] When you make it to the top there is no question about it. Everyone knows where you started, and where you ended up. Everyone is in the same boat. Sure its hard, but isn't that they way all sports should be? Just gotta fight your way up. I had a breakthough race at Elk, which will put me in the top 15 for GS most likely next year at most races. Which means I will have a very good start possition (top 15 get scrabled in races) so I should be getting nicer courses, which mean smoother courses, which means I should be able to go faster, and bump myself more. Ridge will have to do the same thing. As far as slalom goes, lets not mention that eh? (I dropped about 50 places nationaly , but in GS I went up nearly 700 places ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 AHH ha - Ok that makes sense. Question: How long has this racing format been around? Any insight on why the USSA program hasn't picked up on the Nastar format? Or am I trend setting? BTW- did you ever get a chance to see that V1 video of the 8 year old? HOLY CRAP!! Thats what Ridge likes to watch over and over and over and over.. USSA doesn't have anything like that. regardless of the difficulty of the course I hope they keep attracting that caliber of skier in the pursuing years. 25762[/snapback] What do you mean by the nastar format? Have everyone race as they get in the start wand? Or by alphabetical order? Or youngest to oldest? Because the people that work hard, and ski fast, don't want to have to wait for lil runts to ruin there courses, when they have not proven anything yet. And uhh im working on watching that video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 When you make it to the top there is no question about it. Everyone knows where you started, and where you ended up. Everyone is in the same boat. Sure its hard, but isn't that they way all sports should be? Just gotta fight your way up. I had a breakthough race at Elk, which will put me in the top 15 for GS most likely next year at most races. Which means I will have a very good start possition (top 15 get scrabled in races) so I should be getting nicer courses, which mean smoother courses, which means I should be able to go faster, and bump myself more. Ridge will have to do the same thing. As far as slalom goes, lets not mention that eh? (I dropped about 50 places nationaly , but in GS I went up nearly 700 places ) 25763[/snapback] fighting your way up to the top is all on you...driving you all over the place and paying for everthing is all on your parents...some kids are not that fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Also, just remember everyone starts out at the bottom of the pack...Everyone.Even your hero, Durggy-man Bode started with 990 points, and ya gotta work your way up. Prove yourself. 25758[/snapback] Now that's funny!!!! I didn't know who EXPLODEE was 2 months ago, I like him now because he is a home town boy at the top. I like how he has personality. I wish I could ski like him, reckless and all. Hero? Not sure bout that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) fighting your way up to the top is all on you...driving you all over the place and paying for everthing is all on your parents...some kids are not that fortunate. 25767[/snapback] Thats true, but then again no one says ski racing is cheap, if you are going to get into it, you probably know that. Doesn't matter how they score it. EDIT: If you live in PA you will never be that great as far as points go. The penalty for the race (a number of points depending on how fast people skied the course, and stuff) is added to your race points (another calculation of points). The winner gets the penatly (plus 0 race points). In PA penatlies are usually around 80. Go up to Vermont and you can get a penatly of around 40, or even lower. I went to the slush cups, and the penalty was like 7 points in the slalom, and the unoffical penatly was like 4.8 in GS (which later got bumped up to 50 for technical reasons)... Bottom line, you are not going to be able to be recignized as one of the best racers if you are living around here. So its expensive, and just about impossible to be at the top if you don't want to travel from PA Edited April 25, 2005 by skidude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 (edited) What do you mean by the nastar format? Edited April 26, 2005 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Now that's funny!!!! I didn't know who EXPLODEE was 2 months ago, I like him now because he is a home town boy at the top. I like how he has personality. I wish I could ski like him, reckless and all. Hero? Not sure bout that.. 25769[/snapback] Either way, if he can do it, so can Ridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Is it winter yet....? 25771[/snapback] damn I need snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skigurl Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 it kicks butt to be a girl in USSA because you almost always go first (before all the guys bet to the course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Almost always? Girls always go first, sometimes you get lucky and they will set a guys course and a girls course (HARDLY EVER HAPPENS) and the girls still run there course first. Anyway another thing that Ridge will just have to deal with. But most of the girls don't trash the courses too much, its the top 25 guys, that hammer them that really do the damage, then the other 50 people that will go before you don't help either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 damn I need snow 25773[/snapback] Dude - you gotta make an appearance Friday and at least look at last seasons' snow? check out the tuning shop too. I haven't heard back from Andy yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Thats true, but then again no one says ski racing is cheap, if you are going to get into it, you probably know that. Doesn't matter how they score it. In PA penatlies are usually around 80. Go up to Vermont and you can get a penatly of around 40, or even lower. I went to the slush cups, and the penalty was like 7 points in the slalom, and the unoffical penatly was like 4.8 in GS (which later got bumped up to 50 for technical reasons)... Bottom line, you are not going to be able to be recignized as one of the best racers if you are living around here. So its expensive, and just about impossible to be at the top if you don't want to travel from PA 25770[/snapback] UHHH.. so dude, let me get this right. You race primarily here in PA, then go to east gybip and kick everyones arse who has a better point standing than you, come back, and continue to get penalized because no top ranked point racers lowered the penalty to where it should be? MAN! I thought the Nastar Handicap system needed work.. No wonder the US has problems consistently producing top racers.. I'm going to watch CSI.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Girls don't always go first, especially in speed events. We've been to MANY races where the boys run a course before the girls. Also races where they have two different courses or the race is run on different days. In PARA and the Northern Division (where we are now), kids who are not yet skiing in USSA "scored" races ski for "world cup points". Certain races are designated as the "qualifiers" within a division for JO's or end of season championships. The total WC points earned in those races is added up to determine which kids go to the "big races" at the end of the season. The next season they start all over with a clean slate, earning points based on where they finish, not their times. USSA points are not about your finish position, but about your time compared to the leader. Basically, if you finish 3 seconds out of first, it would give you the same points if there were 15 racers or 200 racers. They carry over year to year and determine start positions for a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJSkiFamily Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Papasteeze, Our local paper did a story about brother/sister snowboarders who compete in races but they compete for the Bromley, VT resort team. Later in the article it was mentioned that the parents ended up having to buy a place in Bromley to accomodate the kids. Boy, that sure adds to the cost of competing. So Skidude has a point about having to travel if you want your kids to rank high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 (edited) UHHH.. Edited April 26, 2005 by sibhusky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 Rob let me just say this...>I coudl skip every PA race, and probably go up to NY at the end of the year and lower my points more than what I could do all season in PA. (Assuming I stood up and finished all the runs decently) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 (edited) You don't quite have it right. Edited April 26, 2005 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkSnow Posted April 26, 2005 Report Share Posted April 26, 2005 You said thread was dying, and I wanted to use the smiley I just added... :deadhorse: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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