AtomicSkier Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 My race skis will never see a stone, but a stone can be controlled to the type of texture that is in the base. A good shop will ask you what you expect and what your intentions are with the ski, type of snow (or ice in the Poconos) you plan on skiing. This is one of the reasons I got rid of my Montana, it could get a flat base but had no fine tuning controls. Besides, I should have been clearer belt vs. stone grind. Well, of course the stone controls the texture, that's how the texture is put in . However, that aside, it's inevitable that your skis will be full of ptex hairs that can only be removed by repeated waxings and scrapings with a very sharp plastic or metal scraper. It's those hairs which slow you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
train36 Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 (edited) Well guys sorry to start a controversy , it looks like I need to get me some tunning supplies. I am pretty sure I will be able to do it. I have always tuned my side edges myself and did my own waxing and repairs. I have bee looking at ski-racing.com and they seem to have some nice stuff including a base bevel guide with2 degrees and a nice side edge tool. They also have a nice pair of vices for snowboards and a good looking table. Looks like I am going to have put out a good amount of money but it will pay me back in the long run. Thanks for all the advice. One more question what grit diamond stone do I need general tuning ? , they have an abundance of different brands and grits on that site. Edited October 2, 2007 by train36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 (edited) Well, of course the stone controls the texture, that's how the texture is put in . However, that aside, it's inevitable that your skis will be full of ptex hairs that can only be removed by repeated waxings and scrapings with a very sharp plastic or metal scraper. It's those hairs which slow you down. I love how you claim that stone grinding leaves hairs. You must not know much about the difference between a stone and a belt. A stone doesn't leave any "hairs"! A good stone grind combined with wax is what makes a particular ski fast. This is why WC athletes have many pairs of skis with different bases and grinds on them for different snow conditions. The reason they don't base grind them during the season is so they don't screw up the base edge angle and remove the wax. It has nothing to do with "hair". They have the luxury of doing this because they have a grind/base for every condition. And the thing about the camber! What the hell are you talking about? Tuning has nothing to do with camber. Once you get out of engineering school you will understand this. One other point.................. ALL race skis are finished on a stone at the factory! So to say never stone grind your skis is absurd! Edited October 2, 2007 by First Grade Teacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I love how you claim that stone grinding leaves hairs. You must not know much about the difference between a stone and a belt. A stone doesn't leave any "hairs"! A good stone grind combined with wax is what makes a particular ski fast. This is why WC athletes have many pairs of skis with different bases and grinds on them for different snow conditions. The reason they don't base grind them during the season is so they don't screw up the base edge angle and remove the wax. It has nothing to do with "hair". They have the luxury of doing this because they have a grind/base for every condition. I refer you to the second page, since I apparently don't know what I'm talking about... http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/datafiles/...rinding%207.pdf The article is titled "A Racer's Guide to Stone Grinding", the last paragraph talks about breaking down the structure to smooth it out. And after using your steel brush, etc to break down the structure, the last step is to remove any remaining ptex hairs AFTER the stone grind. You just like to argue, don't you? BTW-What I meant is Atomic bases in tip and tail are slightly concave, not cambered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) I refer you to the second page, since I apparently don't know what I'm talking about... http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/datafiles/...rinding%207.pdf The article is titled "A Racer's Guide to Stone Grinding", the last paragraph talks about breaking down the structure to smooth it out. And after using your steel brush, etc to break down the structure, the last step is to remove any remaining ptex hairs AFTER the stone grind. You just like to argue, don't you? BTW-What I meant is Atomic bases in tip and tail are slightly concave, not cambered. Your link doesn't work but I don't need to see it anyway. I'll be nice. Breaking down the structure means taking the sharp edges off of the peaks that are left in between the valley's of the P-tex from stone grinding. If you don't round these peaks your ski will not be very fast and could feel railed. These peaks should not be confused with "hair". The steel brush is what causes the "hair", not the stone grinder. No I don't like to argue but you come across as cocky when you add the head banger even when you don't know what your talking about. Edited October 3, 2007 by First Grade Teacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Your link doesn't work but I don't need to see it anyway. I'll be nice. Breaking down the structure means taking the sharp edges off of the peaks that are left in between the valley's of the P-tex from stone grinding. If you don't round these peaks your ski will not be very fast and could feel railed. These peaks should not be confused with "hair". The steel brush is what causes the "hair", not the stone grinder. No I don't like to argue but you come across as cocky when you add the head banger even when you don't know what your talking about. the forum software seems to be reformatting URLs really weird.... view the pdf here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Phil: stone grinding your bases create peaks and valleys that make the ski slow until they get worn back down. The p-tex looks like the Rockies under magnification---and sorry, 1st Grade, but there's a lot of hairs in there as well. A freshly stone ground base looks pretty with the naked eye, but feels like you have the wrong wax with all the drag. Nobody has ever recommended stone grinding every day or two. I did NOT recommend stone grinding more than once a season. You said you grind every 20 days...sorry, but I forget you don't ski much. To me and the people I'm around, that means four or five times a season. Your a nice guy, Phil...why not just get a local season pass and quit all your posing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Well guys sorry to start a controversy , it looks like I need to get me some tunning supplies. I am pretty sure I will be able to do it. I have always tuned my side edges myself and did my own waxing and repairs. I have bee looking at ski-racing.com and they seem to have some nice stuff including a base bevel guide with2 degrees and a nice side edge tool. They also have a nice pair of vices for snowboards and a good looking table. Looks like I am going to have put out a good amount of money but it will pay me back in the long run. Thanks for all the advice. One more question what grit diamond stone do I need general tuning ? , they have an abundance of different brands and grits on that site. I use red (fine) and blue (course), but rely mostly on blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Phil: stone grinding your bases create peaks and valleys that make the ski slow until they get worn back down. The p-tex looks like the Rockies under magnification---and sorry, 1st Grade, but there's a lot of hairs in there as well. A freshly stone ground base looks pretty with the naked eye, but feels like you have the wrong wax with all the drag. Nobody has ever recommended stone grinding every day or two. I did NOT recommend stone grinding more than once a season. You said you grind every 20 days...sorry, but I forget you don't ski much. To me and the people I'm around, that means four or five times a season. Your a nice guy, Phil...why not just get a local season pass and quit all your posing Why would I want to get a season pass locally if I couldn't use it? With my schedule and being 2 hours from the Poc's don't see myself skiing any more days than I do now. I'm am curious about your definition of "posing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Why would I want to get a season pass locally if I couldn't use it? With my schedule and being 2 hours from the Poc's don't see myself skiing any more days than I do now. I'm am curious about your definition of "posing". Sorry, I got caught up in a thread called 'Are Ski Instructors Lame?'...Phil, it's like you have 50 Skierforevers over there... Anyway, I'm just teasing you about your silly snobbery...it really takes you two hours to get to Blue? Are you from the Maryland part of Pennsylvania? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I had Langhorne repair a huge rock gouge (too big to fix myself). I've also had them mount bindings. Never had a problem with them or their work. I've always tuned my own stuff. Wax, edges, and p-tex repair. I don't mess with big gouges though. I'd try G-spot, the skate/snow shop down the road on business route 1 from Langhorne. I know they hand tune all the boards, so you can always give it a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_rider Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Justin nailed it right on the head G-Spot is who I'd recommend not only is it all done by hand like justin said but no one in the shop can tune a board before the owner (who's been riding and hand tuning boards for over 15 years) has you do a full tune in front/with him to make sure you're up to his standards; also for an edge tool I know this sounds crazy but the burton edge tool is what I'd suggest it's amazing I just used it a week ago to put a bevel on a kids park board and on my own board it works like a charm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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