Dave_S Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I posted this on the other side because I felt the Management needs to see it... but considering the content it might get removed and what better place to express the true situation than here: I don?t want anyone to misinterpret this as a disparaging remark about the folks that work at CB but last night?s situation has raised my concern for the folks at CB to consider some additional training for the ranger patrol. Last night on JC there were several dangerous situations. The first was the fact that the conditions on the hill were less than desirable. The second was that there was an injury that took place on the hill. And the last was they way that the ranger patrol was directing traffic. Not much can be done about the first two situations, but I was very concerned with the third. As we all know JC has a critical hairpin turn on it just before the entrance to Near East. We also know that the traffic on that trail can be very high. Last night the conditions were extremely icy in spots. After an accident, after the injured party was moved off the hill the ranger patrol was ?preserving? the sight of the accident. This is expected behavior but the methodology was very questionable given the circumstances. Three members of the patrol were standing on the hill within 10 yards of one another. They were attempting to funnel the crowd through a very ice spot no larger than 10 feet across. The only member of the patrol that was using the whistle was the man at the bottom of the hill ? the one closest to the pinch point. I feel that it would have been more effective and safer if the patrol was spread out over a greater distance, if the first (the patrol member at the widest part of the funnel) was using the whistle to give the guests an appropriate warning. It appeared as though no consideration to the situation that they were causing and the chaos they were causing. Upon reaching the base I felt that I needed to report the situation to what I thought was a responsible party. This was a mistake on my part! I approached another member of the ranger patrol and related the situation to him and what my concerns were. Instead of acknowledging my concerns and determining the best way to remedy the situation he decided to engage in a debate with me. He expressed that it was too much to ask for the patrol to walk any further up the hill, and that it wouldn?t matter how the members of the patrol were configured within the situation because ?No one listens anyway?. I have to say that whether I was right or wrong this was not the best way to engage a guest who is concerned with an unsafe situation. I was amazed with his lack of understanding of the situation and his treatment of me and my concern for safety. Later in the evening I had the pleasure of riding the lift up with this same member of the Ranger Patrol and since he had told me he was going to go back up to JC after our debate, I asked him ?how did you do?? He then told me that there was a lot more going on in that situation than I realized and that I couldn?t possibly understand all of the issues. Needless to say this did very little to raise my confidence in his ability to deal with the public. He basically explained that the patrol was attempting to preserve the accident scene and that they had to prevent the crowd from skiing in that area. He also said that if the skiers in that area were skiing in control that it would not be an issue. This was not at all the case. Without advance notice of the dramatic change in the trail configuration, the amount of traffic (keep in mind that the Pharaoh was closed and that everyone turning right off the lift had to use this trail) that was forced to come through this area and the patch of ice that preceded the 10 foot pinch point, very few people could maintain ?control?. This is not a trail for intermediate and expert skiers and the patrol can not expect that the guests that use that trail have the ability to ski at that level. Aside from the overall safety situation I could not believe the way that this ranger dealt with me. I was not being rude, I was not being unsafe, I was not causing a hazard, but he felt the need to express his superiority over me. It is my suggestion that perhaps CB spend some time talking to these folks to be sure the management knows how they are dealing with the guests. JMHO and thanks for letting me vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 yup....i remember that, cause the ranger had put flags down on one of the bumps where the person got injured. but there is ice that you can control on, but on some points it was that icy where if you shift weight, your falling, and i did, hard, and smacked my side really hard, that trail was sooo dangorous last night, it was past skiiable. I was about to say to a ranger "heres an idea, GROOM THE TRAIL" camelback needs a midday groom to deal with problems like this. Conditions on such a key trail were unexcuseable, and i was very unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 oh did anyone see the 3 rangers below the stevenson, without their skis on just pulling hella people over. They were there for 4 lift rides.....on the bactrain, where it comes the closet to pocono raceway (not up by the pharow, but lower)....i dunno what they were doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_S Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The rangers were in "rare" form last night. IN my opinion - doing nothing for safety and only pi$$ing off the guests. You can tell that the season is wearing on - they are losing patience and they know that their reign as king a ruler of the land will be over soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 The rangers were in "rare" form last night. IN my opinion - doing nothing for safety and only pi$$ing off the guests. You can tell that the season is wearing on - they are losing patience and they know that their reign as king a ruler of the land will be over soon. i told a ranger one time "If thats how you boost your self-confidence, by pulling over tennagers for doing nothing, then you go right ahead and do that"......They are wanna-be police, and since they can't be police, they pretend to be the law on the mountain. I almost pummeled a ski patroler last night, i was in the singles line, and asked them if they were 3, he looked at me and didnt respond, i said louder, ARE YOU 3? he said something really softly, so i said screw you, so i went up with them, and hes like we're 4 already, with a ski patroller comming on from the singles line on the otherside....I poelitly said "thanks you asshole".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_S Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Could it be two sets of rules. One for the members of the club and one for those that are not members. Then they wonder why people are not nice to them. It is a mater of respect. There is no reason not to respect any guest (no matter how old or young they are) that is paying to use the mountain. In addition it sounds to me that you were the one looking to follow the rules and the ski patrol were happy to ride the lift with 3 instead of at capacity. Once again - if they want people to take them seriously when they try to enforce the rules they must start by leading with example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 (edited) And it's the wanna-be assh*le cop Rangers that have created a situation that'll never change. Being Ski Patrol used to be kinda cool, if you consider 'getting girls' some sort of measure (which I do). But being a Ranger or Patroller at CB is now like joing the A**hole Club. I get on the lift at Montage and the yellow jacket Rangers and Patrollers are nice guys that want to ski for free and every once in while help somebody. Period. I get on with one at CB and he turns up his Super Secret Dick Tracy Radio...f*ing idiots. Keep your little club. Edited February 15, 2004 by ski999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 i've met only ONE nice ranger at camelback and it was a women, and she said "Its tooooo freakin cold out tonight to take my dam pencil out" and i said "as long as you dont stop me" and she said "you wont have a problem" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I've met the one with short hair and lots of earings. I like her. As sexist as it is, cops and Rangers that are female are okay if they act like hard-asses. That's actually kinda cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I've met the one with short hair and lots of earings. I like her. As sexist as it is, cops and Rangers that are female are okay if they act like hard-asses. That's actually kinda cool. this same thread got locked over at the ridecb board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_S Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I knew it would get locked! Here is the issue over there no one is willing to admit there might be a problem. The only people that are willing to post are those that feel obligated to respond on the side of the rangers because they are using CB's MB. This makes me upset because they don't see the point in the original post - to make the mountain safer and more fun. I (I was the only one willing to speak up to defend my observation) had to rebut the phony defense of the ranger's poor execution of there responsibility. When the folks defending the rangers made the comment about limiting my skiing to the beginners slope if I could not stay in control (BTW that was not the case it was an observation), and it was pointed out that this all occurred on JC which is an Advanced Novice slope they didn't have anywhere to go. I think that K may have done the right thing by locking the thread because I was about to let the thread get ugly. It was not a healthy debate it was a failure to admit that there was a problem! I was glad to see that the thread did not disappear. I was glad to see that K 's response included the fact that he at least acknowledged my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 j.reed is a freakin moron, he will never say anything against the mountain, ever, so dont make assumptions based on what he said. I feel the same way about them as you do, and I want to get a helmet cam so i can record my dealings with rangers, and compile the way they are treating their guests, and send it to the marketing department, because they CLEARLY do not know what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_S Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 j.reed is a freakin moron, he will never say anything against the mountain, ever, so dont make assumptions based on what he said. I feel the same way about them as you do, and I want to get a helmet cam so i can record my dealings with rangers, and compile the way they are treating their guests, and send it to the marketing department, because they CLEARLY do not know what is going on. He's got his opinion and I have mine. My kids are 7 and 11 and not at the level that you guys are at. I make sure that they ski in control and when they screw up it gets pointed out to them why they made a mistake. I insist that they stay safe. I let them have fun and ski to the edge of their ability, but always in control. If the mountain becomes unsafe I will speak up because I have a greater interest in the safety of my kids then CB does. I don't expect CB to be as intense about the safety of my kids as I am (because they are my kids) but I do expect the rangers to behave in a way that builds my level of confidence. That night all I felt was that they didn't even know they were causing a problem. My kids had lessons that night and as the instructors came in they were all talking about it as well. One instructor even stated that he could not bite into the trail at the pinch point because the ice was so hard and thick. He must have been about 200 lbs so how do you figure that a 7 year old 70 lb (i think) kid could do it? The instructors did not side with the Rangers. I couldn't stand the comment that PR is not their job. CB invests in "greeters" just to serve as people to improve the overall experience. It would be smart if they trained all their people to deal appropriately with the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Don't even start me on why i hate rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Don't even start me on why i hate rangers 'Cause they suck!! BTW, Dave-S, I just think it's OUR responsibilty to ensure the safety of our own kids when skiing on a weekend in the Poconos. It would be nice if the Rangers were capable, but that idea is simply ludicrous. That's not to say that if someone does a blind take-off with no spotter and lands on me or my kid that some slopeside justice wouldn't take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_S Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 One thing they did was when we were training on rocket (the trail was closed) one of them started skiing down it and almost took out 2 kids. I have no clue why he was there but then he had the mind to say that it was the kids fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadows Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 damn, i think i found my ally is he still around? He basically explained that the patrol was attempting to preserve the accident scene and that they had to prevent the crowd from skiing in that area what exactly do they mean by "preserve"? not lettin the snow get all fucked up, but letting ANYONE involved go ahead and leave, just ski down the hill and go on. fuck that, honestly, this post just made me realize (more) that CB is a bullshit excuse for winter activities and professionalism. i know this post is old, but i have never read it (or anything Dave S posted, even on the "other side") he seems cool (cause we share the same views) would love to meet him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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