NASTAR Question

[Ski]

I think Rob may have some good input for this, so I'm hoping he'd take some extra time...but here goes:

 

The one element that NASTAR misses---and it's a big one, IMO---is any form of coaching and tips. NASTAR is terrific for giving kids (and adults) a taste of gates, but budding racers are left to fend for themselves when it comes to making any real improvements. I really enjoy passing on a few tips, as are any of the more experienced racers at the numerous hills I've skied, but I'm usually with Ty, so I can't take the time.

 

This idea always crosses my mind because our lift goes right up over the NASTAR course and I see so many people that would have a much better experience if they just made a few very basic changes. For example, being bent over at the waist; skiing right at the gates; poling in the middle of the course; and, turning on one ski.

 

I think a ski area that takes the time to host NASTAR might also consider freeing up an instructor to spend a moment or two with each racer in the lineup above the start wand. I mean, look at all the money spent on terrain parks and pipes, yet nobody has to pay to ski/ride those slopes.

 

I'd like to hear what some of you Thursday night Blue people think. Would getting some feedback from a pro be a good thing? I know that you can read a thousand books and watch endless instructional videos, but I've always thought that having even a brief one-on-one instruction so much more valuable.

[Ski]

A private lesson here at the Hideout is $45/hr. I can only imagine the pricing at big places. I'm really not talking about a roaming know-it-all, Doug. But an instructor with race experience on a sunny afternoon being available for feedback.

 

And, NO, I'm not looking for employment.

 

People that come over from the greens to pay $5 to go around the gates are usually the last people to be interested in plunking down $100 for a race-type lesson.

 

Not to dismiss your post: that's 0-1 and okay. I'm interested in the negative aspect, too, so thanks!

 

 

 

(ass clown )

 

 

Oh, and just to add, the majority of first timers and other newbies tend to be families of three from Yonkers and don't have friends with any race experience. Maybe that's what makes Blue's Thursday nights different---the shear number of people that have been racing for years and are a variety of levels.

[AtomicSkier]

I agree with Doug. Everyone has a different style, and there is no one difinitive fastest way down the mountain. When I run NASTAR, I might be trying different things, doing drills, etc. It's play time for me. Last thing I want is someone coming up to me telling me what I'm doing wrong. Mostly, because I already know. If someone like Bernie Resch offered some advice, my ears would be wide open. Someone like Philpug? No way. I have no respect for any type of coach, be it ski or golf, that can't beat me. If you're going to teach me, you better be better then me, regardless of "Those who can't play, can teach".

 

That's just me, but as long as it's purely voluntary. There could be a race coach mid course with a sign that says "Ask me for advice!" which would be a better way to implement such a thing.

[Ski]

Eh, I guess I'm not being clear. I'm asking what people think about having help for turkey tuckers, not USCSA racers. The typical Saturday afternoon first or fourth time NASTAR racers...people that aren't sure wich way to go around the first gate.

[skimom]

I wouldn't mind a little coaching...

[Metz the Jersey boy]

I'd definitely take advantage of that! In fact, I plan on not shooting pool as much next winted and doing a lot of gate training instead, but coaching on nastar nights would really be invaluable.

 

I don't think ski is talking about an annoying guy going up to everyone and telling them what they're doing wrong. I think what he's got in mind is someone being on hand for us to pick their brain at our discretion, or someone there just to see everyone and say, "hey, would you like a little bit of help?"

[Papasteeze]

Just a quick reply. The really cool thing about Nastar is the commaraderie. BC is where most of our Nastar experience is and it seemed that every one open to talking about thier runs. But Yeah, seek out the pacesetters and the die hard Nastar fans, they have all seemed eager to take a look and share tips.

 

 

 

 

 

Keep this thread alive... good thread ski!

[Ski]

Thanks Rob, 'Mom, and Metzy....with our mountain growing, I'd like them to not overlook some positive changes to the racing, from the ground on up. And it's not just Sno, but all the hills that offer NASTAR.

 

We had some pretty crappy news at our hill: the head of the ski school at The Hideout retired and the guy that took over just isn't interested in setting gates. So the 60 or so kids that were showing up every weekend are just out of luck. Today was supposed to be the annual Hideout Ski Championship, which we have raced in and often helped run for the last seven years. We'd sometimes have over 100 racers and the sponsors paid for a huge number of trophies, so all the kids were happy.

[sibhusky]

Yeah, the above lack of interest by a ski school makes it really tough to get a "race lesson" unless you are part of a team. I guess if a resort HAS a team, they might be able to produce an interested coach, but the resort would have to pay him for his time and really on the weekends, shouldn't he be working with the team?

[skimom]

We had some pretty crappy news at our hill: the head of the ski school at The Hideout retired and the guy that took over just isn't interested in setting gates. So the 60 or so kids that were showing up every weekend are just out of luck. Today was supposed to be the annual Hideout Ski Championship, which we have raced in and often helped run for the last seven years. We'd sometimes have over 100 racers and the sponsors paid for a huge number of trophies, so all the kids were happy.

 

Looks like you will have to take over.

[Papasteeze]

I'm asking what people think about having help for turkey tuckers, not USCSA racers.

 

Thats a tough one. I think it takes someone who loves the sport enough to offer advice, someone whose skin is thick enough to deal with whatever repsonses they get to unsolicited advice. It takes some like you, Ski. When there are leaders who step up, there are bound to be followers.

 

It needs (IMO) to be handled almost like a recruitment, unfortunatly (using CB as an example) whenever I took Ridge there, I never felt welcomed and often, it felt like the starters were too bothered to have to man the course. Where as BC had/has a great enthusiastic announcer that creates an air of "fun" which in turn leads to people chatting with each other.

 

I don't think that Nastar will ever be in any position to have someone on a course to help coach.. However, I do think that the ski teams could do more to have involvement and thereby offering advice. Of course, I can imagine that CB and all of its analness would never allow its employees to have that type of exposure to liability.

 

BTW Ski, you may be proud to know this. Prior to Ridges joining of the USSA - Montage was the only Nastar course that had people who came up and talked with Ridge, myself and his mother about him and wanted to know where he raced at 3 seasons ago. I forget their names, but I remember that that left a lasting positive impression. I think I made mention of it in a thread way back when in '05

Edited February 19, 2007 by Papasteeze

[Ski]

Rob: I agree that it's a good time for a mixture of recruitment and a time for a mountain to put a good foot forward.When people are nervous and out of their element---like on a race course for the first time---a bored kid with an attitude sending racers through the start is a really bad thing. It even leaves a bad impression when I'm at non-NASTAR races and starters sit there in a lousy mood---it's non much different than getting a grumpy waiter or taxi driver.

 

Years back, we used to have great experiences at Sterling Forest (now called Tuxedo Ridge, or something like that). We used to drive from Princeton all the way to New York State because they made it more fun for a little kid than it was at Shawnee.

 

As to Montage/Sno, they have this ever-roaming development team---a bunch of little kids that are mostly in full ski team uniform. That in itself is a recruiting device to some extent...but it's the two girls that seem to be the main coaches for them. Both are bubbly, outgoing young women that just draw kids to them like kindergarten teachers. Whenever they see Ty around the mountain, they always ask when she's going to join their team. Yesterday, in fact, Ty and I were in line behind them at the start and one of the other coaches told us to cut the line ahead of them...but Ty just wanted to stand there in awe, watching them go one by one.

 

Sib: point taken...I suppose, though, that if you have the money to add a coach, then you have an extra coach. I guess I'm looking at this from the view of having a decent budget. But, yeah, that's the other thing about ski instruction and any other kind of teaching. Just as a wide generalization from my own experience, you end up with the more tenured instructors giving private lessons and all the newbie instructors giving the begginer lessons. While it makes sense on the one hand, new skiers/riders almost always benefit so much more from the long-time teachers, for obvious reasons. Again, I'm not looking for a job. It's just that our home hill was just about to be shut down when it was saved---and it seems to be flourishing. Ticket sales aside, the county had some terrible deal with a company that ran the bar and didn't see any profits from it. That was crazy! I've been in the bar/restaurant a half dozen times this year and it's packed with hundreds of people throwing down cash. Jeez, the bar must make as much money as weekend ticket sales last year.

 

'Mom: if The Hideout would build a 25-ft high start ramp like the one they talk about in Ski Mag at Buck Hill, then I'd consider it....but that's never happening. It would ruin the view of four or five houses, for one thing. The Hideout is just too small and gets too crowded to have even a devo program. We hardly even ski here anymore until the lifts close...then it becomes our private hike-to place.

[Papasteeze]

As to Montage/Sno, they have this ever-roaming development team---a bunch of little kids that are mostly in full ski team uniform. That in itself is a recruiting device to some extent...but it's the two girls that seem to be the main coaches for them. Both are bubbly, outgoing young women that just draw kids to them like kindergarten teachers.

 

I just clicked... Yesterday while doing my gaper routine, I watched the JFBB development team. There was a fun atmosphere there also. As I watched them, I was approached twice by people asking who those kids were. I recently read an article about the need for more teams..

 

From a nastar standpoint, maybe letting people know how you can go online to the Nastar website and form a family and friends team will help start the ball rolling more towards getting people involved in the coaching aspect???

[Ski]

Yeah, I never thought about pushing the friends/family thing...any way to get kids hooked early, the better. Numbers have been mostly level, if not on a slight downswing with PARA. Any way to just make it easier for kids to get pointed in the right direction is a good thing.

 

Case in point: I was standing at the bottom of our race course at The Hideout last year and a family walks over to me and says how much fun it looks and they wished they had signed up for the program at the beginning of the season. They just didn't know that our single pole GS course with stopwatch timing was a simple, day to day thing that cost $3. They couldn't imagine that it wasn't like a Little League, with registration a month before it began.

 

As for NASTAR, I guess it would be nice if the Pacesetters could stick around the course for a while and take more runs and was able to hang with the kids. I know Mike at CB is a J3 coach and it's just not possible for him. I suppose the ideal setup is to have a minimum of three people staffing a course.

 

It's a little like Warren Miller's essay in which he said ski areas could learn a lesson from drug dealers...give some free samples and get 'em hooked.