skidude Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Jeff my grandmother golfs...I don't....Golf bores me...and so did everything after the first sentance in your last post. GO OUT AND DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR TIME/HANDICAP<<Now that is the same for skiing, gulf, or anyother sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimom Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) If NASTAR were golf, they'd assign the course a par time once and be done with it. The point isn't just to see how fast you can get down. If it were, no one would race except in primo conditions. The intent for NASTAR is to see how the racer would do against the world's best. Even the best would have different times depending on the conditions. Since it's reasonable to paceset daily, why shouldn't they repace if it's obvious that things changed? '999's point is well taken that they should use a more uniform method to monitor. Their computers could probably be set up to pick up most types of irregularities. They could warn the resort rather than take medals away. Edited February 22, 2005 by skimom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skigurl Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 If we are doing this for fun does it really matter whether or not you have a medal or not, yes it is rewarding to say look I got a medal, but it's not about the medal it's about whether or not you can go out and have fun regardless of your ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 If NASTAR were golf, they'd assign the course a par time once and be done with it. The point isn't just to see how fast you can get down. If it were, no one would race except in primo conditions. The intent for NASTAR is to see how the racer would do against the world's best. Even the best would have different times depending on the conditions. Since it's reasonable to paceset daily, why shouldn't they repace if it's obvious that things changed? Actaully, I was applying it for one day. However, if they changed a hole, and made it shorter for the next day, then the course may be a par 71, but it would stay that for the whole day. And the next day maybe the whole was made into a par 5, and it became a par 73. My point was that the golf course starts the day at a certain par, and it stays that come hell or high water. Sure, if someone could redesign a golf course, as quickly as you can set a race course, then yes, the par would change, but it would remain the same for the whole time the golf course / race course was in that setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 If we are doing this for fun does it really matter whether or not you have a medal or not, yes it is rewarding to say look I got a medal, but it's not about the medal it's about whether or not you can go out and have fun regardless of your ability. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahhh, school without report cards, baseball without scores, and no bedtime, too! I bet you like Calvin and Hobbes, Missy? You either have rules or you don't. Since there's no possible way for a small kid on a 30 sec course to compete against a kid on a 16 sec kiddie course, then why not open Nationals to everyone that has raced, say five days? I don't really know when NASTAR became so cuththroat that headquarters would strip kids medals. As you know, Missy, the time difference between the fastest racers and the slowest grows in direct proportion to the difficulty of the course. The difficulty is related to course length, weather, and how off-set the gates are. It would be silly to compare Ty's times to a kid on a 16 sec course. A 16 sec course will have everyone bunched together between 20 and 30 sec. Even little kids. But make the course longer and steeper and the little kids will be over a minute. I'm GLAD we have a long course. It's more fun. I don't care about little one's in Park City getting golds. We don't have any interest in going to Nationals. I did that twice with her sister and, well, uh, she's 4-years-old! I know what you mean, Missy, but think about those kids you babysit. Tell one that if they clean up their room, you'll take them out for ice cream. After they're done cleaning, try explaining that they don't get ice cream. Now, how important in the big picture is ice cream? Not very. Nor are little pieces of metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I agree with skimom that they should monitor and warn. If a pacesetter continually has a slow run, then speeds up really noticeably subsequently every single day, then the resort should be advised that the course needs to be repaced at regular intervals and a new race set up after the repacing. If the resort decides to ignore the warning, then NASTAR should either remove their NASTAR designation or fix things forcibly. I agree that repacing after everyone has run, been told they have a given HC and medal, etc., is NOT the way to do things. On the other hand, when I finally beat skimom, I want to do it fair and square. (Unfortunately, my mountain has cut back NASTAR so much that it's just about never open when I am there. Doesn't look like I will even get a state ranking this year.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 If the resort decides to ignore the warning, then NASTAR should either remove their NASTAR designation or fix things forcibly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's recreational racing. Are you suggesting a resort should lose NASTAR because they post "golden days", where a little 4-year-old girl that normally skis a 200HC but then has a 26HC? Well, there goes Crested Butte! Or a 4-year-old boy that normally skis a 150HC, but then gets a 50HC? At that resort, they have races where the pacesetter uses his slowest time, which makes his own daily HC a 1.43, down from his normal 6 HC. Boy, talk about providing a golden day opportunity! Okay, so warn that resort and threaten to remove their program. BTW, that one is Park City: http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...40690&year=2005 NASTAR HQ killed our little ski area's results because our pacesetter "didn't use his fastest time of the day." Yet it's okay for the resort that hosts Nationals? And look who that pacesetter was! The Yoda of NASTAR himself! I'm NOT suggesting ANY results be changed. It's RECREATIONAL racing. NASTAR isn't capable of providing accurate HC results that their premier resorts. I'm sure they provide tremendous fun. But I'd like to see Gary Dranow email the father of the 4-year-old boy and tell him that the race has been recalculated and the medal is no longer valid. Better prepare the kid and be honest, since kids are getting pretty savy and will see the BRONZE disappear on his results page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I am not sure what your problem is, ski999. As I said: I agree that repacing after everyone has run, been told they have a given HC and medal, etc., is NOT the way to do things. On the other hand, when I finally beat skimom, I want to do it fair and square. Obviously, they decided something wasn't kosher. You are free to argue with them. Maybe they'll change their minds again. (Assuming, of course, that your arguments are based on FACTS and not this emotional ranting that you are doing here.) But I doubt your 4 year old knows one way or the other -- unless, of course, YOU decided to tell her about it, which would be pretty stupid for a dad to do. I am pretty sure that, recreational or not, that everyone wants the program to mean SOMETHING and not just be "feel good" stuff. Wasn't it you yourself that said you don't believe in giving out prizes to everyone? NASTAR has adjusted things to be what they believe is more accurate. I suggest you prove to THEM that what they have done is not more accurate instead of carrying on about hurt feelings. And if a resort doesn't believe in enough in the integrity of the NASTAR program to see that it is carried out, then they should go off and do what they feel like doing on their own. And, just so you don't miss what I said again: I agree that repacing after everyone has run, been told they have a given HC and medal, etc., is NOT the way to do things. On the other hand, when I finally beat skimom, I want to do it fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I am not sure what your problem is, ski999. As I said:Obviously, they decided something wasn't kosher. You are free to argue with them. Maybe they'll change their minds again. (Assuming, of course, that your arguments are based on FACTS and not this emotional ranting that you are doing here.) But I doubt your 4 year old knows one way or the other -- unless, of course, YOU decided to tell her about it, which would be pretty stupid for a dad to do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your not sure what MY problem is? It's too obscure of a concept that going by one rule at one resort, but not at others is wrong? As you said: "If the resort decides to ignore the warning, then NASTAR should either remove their NASTAR designation or fix things forcibly." NASTAR HQ took away medals of kids at our hill DAYS after a race, while awarding gold medal 26 HC to 4-year-old girls at their premier resorts. Have YOU ever skied a 26 HC? Can you picture a pre-k girl skiing a 26 HC? "Assuming, of course, that your arguments are based on FACTS and not this emotional ranting that you are doing here" Doesn't your computer allow you to click on hyperlinks? Or are you suggesting I rewrote the NASTAR html? Fact: our results were recalculated because our pacesetter didn't use his fastest time, according to NASTAR HQ. Fact: the Park City pacesetter uses his slowest time for pacesetting and gives himself a 1.43 HC. I don't care what happens at Park City and Crested Butte, or the strange results posted at nearly every resort. Do you get that, Sib? I don't care. I have always found NASTAR to be fun, but not something to compair yourself to other's with. Handicapping is flawed at best. But to go against their own rules and methods and to recalculate a race using a method THAT THEY IGNORE, is wrong. ____________________________ "But I doubt your 4 year old knows one way or the other -- unless, of course, YOU decided to tell her about it, which would be pretty stupid for a dad to do." I think it's stupid for you to attack my parenting. Ty didn't earn a medal that day. I'm arguing for the other kids. I believe she had a 171 and it converted to a 191, or something. If they follow the rule that took away those kids medals, then she'd lose her two bronze medals from earlier races. The pacesetter was faster in later runs in every race this year. Nobody is bitching to get medals back. Nobody wants a tainted medal. Some people, including me, were very upset that NASTAR applied a rule to us and NOT to their own Nationals host. We wanted to have our say. It's really ignorant of you to pass it off as emotional ranting. Here's the quote from NASTAR HQ: "Comments: This race has been recalculated because the Pacesetter did not use his fastest time." Sib, instead of mocking me, go surf NASTAR and see the resorts, including Park City, that the pacesetter doesn't use his fastest time of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) The link there does not show the pacesetter using his slowest time. It shows him using a median time or average time that day. Presumably the few hundredths difference was not enough to be an issue like the one you are presenting here. Anyway, like I said, you are certainly free to take up all those other resort's issues with NASTAR. But coming here to bash skidude about this is wrong. He had a question about the way things were supposed to be done. It got answered and they changed your resort's medal showings. If skidude can achieve that with a simple question, then you certainly can as well if you think something has been done wrong at those other resorts. The people who only "did it for fun" at your resort all went home with medals they can wear around and may not even check the website to know anything happened. No one is knocking on their doors taking away the souvenir. The people who are more serious will be disappointed but will continue to race and probably would prefer that there was an attempt at integrity being made. I'm not interested in the goings on at resorts where I didn't race, myself. There is unfairness everywhere in the world. Either get used to it or fix it, but there is no point in ranting about it here. I think you have made WAY TOO MUCH of a deal over this whole thing. Edited February 23, 2005 by sibhusky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Ski999, you can relax now, as I will smoke your "enemy" tonight for you (assuming you bring the fluro ). Did I hear you say Ty was aiming to beat Skimom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Ridge will just be in the PARA region of USSA. No time for anything else. By the time he's a J3, NASTAR courses will only be useful if he needs to work on some basics, since they are neither steep enough or off-set enough. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ski999 - I feel your pain man. the resentment, the ... whatever you call it.. As an experienced father of expert 10 & 11 year old boys, I feel the need to offer this insight. be it right or wrong in your eyes.. I am not sure that Ridge WILL be in PARA... That is his choice.. Please read on.. Ridge (10yr old) was excited about getting medals when started racing with Nastar at the very end of last season and at the beginning of this season. Now, with 9 race days under his belt, he ignores the whole medal thing and concetrates on bettering his handicap scores.. He collects the medals from the different places. I have watched him give them back if has already won one of that color from that resort.. It is now just a colorful collection.. I guess, fortuanately for him/us, we have not been in the situation that you are - I am sure we would feel the same. I am sure that he would feel there was something wrong if on a particular day he could not score the same handicaps that he had the week before (the scores went higher). I can tell you this about the Nastar program, he has continued to show consistent improvement with his handicap in his first season of participation. He is so pumped, psyched and motivated to continue to do better.. I have warned him to no end, that the day will end soon when he doesn't shave a point or 2. He is learning a lot, when we started the season it was on last years skis. then we got them waxed he got a beeter handicap score. Then we had them sharpened, handicap went down a few more points. Then a each day at a different resort his handicap - alittle lower!! A 2 hour private lesson with a former lady racer. guess what? another point lower! How about the new skis, handicap went lower again.. Now we start returning to the resorts that he had skied in the beginning of the season - You need not guess.. It went lower and lower.. LAST NIGHT at Bear Creek with his new speed suit - his best scores yet!! He has gone from a 36 handicap to a score of 20 last night.. I am biting the bullet, gotta get him the poles, the gloves - I got to get an edgin kit, waxin iron.. ... My point and speculation is... That with out Nastar he would not be seeing these type of improvements - while I am sure that he might sense it - he wouldn't really have a guage - he wouldn't really have any thing tangible to prove it. If he had joined a ski racing team - competing intra-club and then Inter-resort. He would only know if he won against that person(s).. He wouldn't really know if he was improving he may have lost interest if he couldn't didn't win.. I agree there may come a time when Nastar is not challenging to him and that he wants to race others, but that is his choice. I will bet that next season he will want to continue to do the same thing next year until his improvement levels off.. My suggestion, share the time with your 4 year old, savvy as she might be.. show her, her results - at a tender 4 years old SHE WILL improve a fast rate and she will be able to see that through the use of Nastar. She will get excited over that and confused about the Handicap system. (IDK.. I think Ridge now understands) I truly believe you will have the same results.. Trust me when I say that winning of the medals looses it's excitement at Nastar - Being able to say and proove that "you" are doing better will mean more to her (and others) if she likes to go fast!! Did I mention that my 11 yr old, Ridge and I have skied avidly for 8 years now. Steven (11) has no interest in racing and Ridge has no real interest in freestyling.. While there is some resentment between them.. I chalk it up to a sibling rivalry, a little bit of jealousy...It is all about skiing for the 3 of us. It is something that we all share together.. SKIING!! I hope that I get the chance to meet you this season.. Talk to you.. Talk to my son. This has been probably the most memorable season for us- we have Nastar to thank for that!! Rob, Steven and Ridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimom Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Ski999, you can relax now, as I will smoke your "enemy" tonight for you (assuming you bring the fluro ). Did I hear you say Ty was aiming to beat Skimom? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted February 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 The link there does not show the pacesetter using his slowest time. It shows him using a median time or average time that day. Presumably the few hundredths difference was not enough to be an issue like the one you are presenting here. Anyway, like I said, you are certainly free to take up all those other resort's issues with NASTAR. But coming here to bash skidude about this is wrong. He had a question about the way things were supposed to be done. It got answered and they changed your resort's medal showings. If skidude can achieve that with a simple question, then you certainly can as well if you think something has been done wrong at those other resorts. There is unfairness everywhere in the world. Either get used to it or fix it, but there is no point in ranting about it here. I think you have made WAY TOO MUCH of a deal over this whole thing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who are you to tell me I have made way too much of a deal over this? Skidude set into motion an event that two grown men on the NASTAR board carried out. 'Dude is a friend of mine, so I yelled at him. Then we made up. I yelled at him, btw, because of the reason he asked the simple little question: he was pissed at Atomic's results at Montage (which were deemed fair and left unchanged). And what gives me the right to yell at the NASTAR guys? Well, I invested a couple of thousand dollars taking familes to Nationals twice. So when two kids get into a fight over results and it causes our resort's races to be recalculated contrary to the rules followed by their premier resorts, then I'm pissed. "...no point ranting about it here." It STARTED here. It's something that happened between 'Dude, Atomic, and me. And this is a message board. And this thread is in "Racing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibhusky Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkSnow Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I think this thread has just about outlived it's usefulness. I think everyone got what they had to say off of their chests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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