Philpug Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I just picked up a NIB pair of Dalbello Krypton Pro's for 227.00, these list for 750.00, have a street price of about 450-500.00 and even on shop forms are close to 300.00. I also used a 10% off Ebay couple, so I basicly got these boots for 204.00 Why wouldn't this be good? Also I bought 2 pair of Dalbello NX8.4's for my wife to 100.00 shipped (That was for BOTH pair). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdorsey Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 who said it was bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 who said it was bad? Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Ebay is great for the penny pinching miser. How did you find out about the dalbello kryptons? How do you know if they will fit? I think it is plain rude to suck info from a shop and then go buy what might be a "second" from online underseller.. When I see an on-line seller donate to buy fencing for a Race team or have a demo day or a pro form or someone to talk to or a decent hassle free warranty or sponsor a skiing website, then I will change my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorovr Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Hasn't this topic gotten kind of played out here? It's not doing anything for the "ski and board community" PASR is trying to bring together... If you can get something for below cost, then go for it. But if its possible for a shop to match then give them a chance and just ask. Papa makes a great point, supporting local shops just supports your local ski scene in general. If you go on Blues website, a ton of the events are sponsored by Nestors. If you are in Camelbacks scene, I think the Loft sponsors a fair amount of stuff up there (correct me if I have the wrong shop). Its not that I'm not guilty of buying online, I bought stuff from Nestors this year, but there was also a pair of bindings online that were mis-priced for $100 below what they should have been. They sold 60 pairs before the company realized the error and corrected it but they had to honor the price that was posted. I jumped on that for the skis I just bought at Nestors. There was no way Nestors could match that because they were like 40-50 dollars below cost. I think the consensus of most of the "pro-shop" crowd is that you should support your shop whenever you can, because no one can deny that good shops are an invaluable resource, but if you see a smokin' deal, no ones gonna knock you for jumpin on that now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Ebay is great for the penny pinching miser. How did you find out about the dalbello kryptons? How do you know if they will fit? I think it is plain rude to suck info from a shop and then go buy what might be a "second" from online underseller.. I agree about sucking info from a shop then buy on line, if you see my post in the other thread about "Theft of knowledge" I agree 100%. Past that... I was in Flexons for 20+ years I got some Kryptons last year (which I was the first person that was NOT a Dalbello employee/sponsored skier to get Kryptons. I got them even before ANY shop got them) They are the right shell size They are for my son (who also has been in Flexons for 5 years) Fit..schmitt..I am using thermoflex liners that I will be molding myself and have molded over 2 dozen pair already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I will add... If I needed a computer, I would never look on Ebay, but I know people who would. I want a new Mac, I will walk into the Apple store and pay asking price for one. A car? I have access to Manheim and maybe 10 wholesalers, but I will still shop privately or even scour lots, because deals are to be had. It is just a matter of knowledge vs. cost vs. convenience for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well I would like to say I got some Tecnica race boots, for 250ish (retail is around 700-800) from A SHOP. It was a demo shop, but that pair of boots was not demoed by anyone by myself, and maybe 2 or 3 other people. Basicly new. As it has been said before, and will be said again, Ebay has its place, and so do shops. Gotta know when to go to which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hey, Phil, great deal. It's the FUTURE. It's coming and can't be put back in the bottle. Shops that have ripped people off for years and made huge sums of money for the owner off the sweat of under-paid shop kids have it coming. Not your shop, Rob---the one I had experience with as an under-paid shop kid. And, Rob, I think it's funny that little old ladies in their mid-80's use our library computer all day long successfully buying needed items off of eBay and you can't seem to not find yourself in a war buying the simplest of things. A shop buying stuff for a race team? Or throwing stuff in the pot for door prizes? That's noble? Jeez, it's ADVERTIZING. Nobody sponsors ANYTHING out of the goodness of their heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 A shop buying stuff for a race team? Or throwing stuff in the pot for door prizes? That's noble? Jeez, it's ADVERTIZING. Nobody sponsors ANYTHING out of the goodness of their heart. Sounds like Rob found someone to buy fencing for the CB race team...so we can have a race on Cliffy this year (new USSA reg says all GS trails must be fenced top to bottom, both sides)....Anyway, we can hope. I really wouldn't care if it was out of the goodness of there heart, the advertising, or the love of the sport...If someone was going to buy some fencing, I might even go down and visit them Hypotheticly, of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) Wow, it's great that they don't expect anything in return! Awesome. They're breaking some new ground by donating a huge, expensive item like that and not getting anything in return whatsoever. Especially since it's an item they don't carry and would have to have what it is explained to them. Edited December 9, 2005 by ski999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sounds like Rob found someone to buy fencing for the CB race team Adam - as a racer and promoter of the CB team, you should be more careful of your choice of words, I will chalk that up to a late night post. PASEF is truly non-profit with tax ID - I am not looking to get people to buy stuff for the the CAT team, I am simply trying to do my part in lieu of selling Bode Brewery gift cards and $5 pins - donations are tax deductable. The contacts made through networking, whether it be here or at a shop or a club is invaluable. There is no associated savings to me from online buying unless, as I have said, I am throw away demo tools for try before you buy purposes. I know it is kicking a dead horse. I think it is great that some people have gotten deals, I just think it would much better for the whole skiing industry in general, if the ski shops were not bashed on in anyway. They can offer so much more back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Oh, so they haven't donated anything to the CAT team? 'Dude and I assumed differently from your post. How about YOU stop bashing eBay ski dealers? Maybe some more kids can get decent gear without 300% markups. I don't think it's so honorable to overcharge everyone, then give away a free set of skis as swag at a comp. And, Jeff, this sounds like the beating of a dead horse, but it's only just begun on MB's...the discussion over the next few years is only going to ramp up because there's going to be some panick going on at shops and people are going to start wanting answers as to why skis are available online for 1/2 the price as shops. The industry is about to change for the better. There were 48 racers at my camp and at least 20 had bought gear online since last year. And these are mostly men and women with six-figure incomes. So maybe we can keep it respectful in the future (sorry I called you an old grandma, Rob), but everyone has been talking about online gear and it's hard to pretend it doesn't exist just for the benefit of a few ski shop owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) I am with and against Papa here. Are there bad Ebay dealers? Maybe, not not near as many as there were in the past. Do you knw why there is so much gear out there on Ebay? it is because the manufactures get it out there. They can only make mony by producing gear. The employees are getting paid and they are wholesaling it to anyone who is willing to buy in bulk. Ski999, Ski shop owners aren't getting rich by any means. I have managed shops and most are surviving year to year. 300% markup? The majority of the inventory is there on 30-50% and less as the year goes on. "Long margin" had become a bit of a buzzword, but that stuff is just being marked down further. Both of you are making broad judgements on shops and Ebay that are based on either old or partial information. Edited December 9, 2005 by Philpug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Both of you are making broad judgements on shops and Ebay that are based on either old or partial information. Ebays got some good stuff, and so do shops. But shops have info, and gear that you can look at, touch, and really understand what someone is saying (assuming the salesperson knows what there talking about). There are good and bad shops, and good and bad Ebay sellers, nothing is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Ebays got some good stuff, and so do shops. But shops have info, and gear that you can look at, touch, and really understand what someone is saying (assuming the salesperson knows what there talking about). There are good and bad shops, and good and bad Ebay sellers, nothing is perfect. So, you are saying that shops are charging for knowledge. Fine, I don't need that knowledge, therefore I see no need to pay for it. And I will say the whole ski industry retail system is completely screwed up when I can go onto Ebay and buy THIS (or even last years) product for well under what wholesale is. It is there because the manufactures are blowing out the gear. The ski shop IS getting screwed in the whole deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) Maybe it is not online sellers vs shops. Maybe it is more the manufacturers/distributers at fault here. Mid season last year, I bought a particular set of skis that Ridge ended up not liking (cheaper from my shop than online). I went to sell them this year and ended up overselling them (4 buyers - 2 sets), no big deal - I'll just order 2 more. This year the ski is 1/2 the price as last year but they won't fill a little shops order of 2 pair. they dumped all 60 pair of 2 particular sizes to one on line seller. So that seller can do what? double the price! It may look like a deal but is not. Not on this particular ski.. Coupled with the problems I have had with on line purchases, this was just one more example of why I cringe with the thought of on line buying of ski gear. I have said several times there is a place for both sellers. I just feel strongly that the best value is to be made by taking the time to build a relationship with a shop. EDIT: Phil - You and I just said/typed the same thing LOL!! Root for the underdog!! Edited December 9, 2005 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 So, you are saying that shops are charging for knowledge. Not quite... I am saying that when you buy from a shop there are advantages: *You know exactly what you are coming home with, as you have picked it up and paid for it *You can talk to people if you have questions *Assuming its an autrhorized dealer (which more are if they sell new skis) if you break your skis then you can have them send it back to the compainy and get a replacement. *You know your gear will come (if you picked it up, you don't need to worry about someone not sending it) Unless you are buying tons of stuff from a ski shop, or know someone on the inside, then it probably is cheaper to go on Ebay...If you don't need any of the above mentioned things. I have broken a pair of skis I bought on Ebay...SOL for me, but if I got them at a shop they would have been replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpug Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Not quite... I am saying that when you buy from a shop there are advantages: *You know exactly what you are coming home with, as you have picked it up and paid for it *You can talk to people if you have questions *Assuming its an autrhorized dealer (which more are if they sell new skis) if you break your skis then you can have them send it back to the compainy and get a replacement. *You know your gear will come (if you picked it up, you don't need to worry about someone not sending it) Unless you are buying tons of stuff from a ski shop, or know someone on the inside, then it probably is cheaper to go on Ebay...If you don't need any of the above mentioned things. I have broken a pair of skis I bought on Ebay...SOL for me, but if I got them at a shop they would have been replaced. If I can buy a ski on Ebay for 250 that has a street price of 500 and I break those skis I can 1. send them back and hope that I get them replaced and I have. 2. Say oh well, I just go back to Ebay and pick up another pair for another 250 (or even less because it is near the end of the season). It is a risk I am willing to take. I have had close to 50 ski specific transactions on Ebay without ONE problem. If I have 2-3 problems in my next 50 I am still adead. The problem here is not people buying closeouts on Ebay..it is the manufacturer flooding the market with overstocks. I am just taking advantage of them. This is the beginning of the end of the Ski shop as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski4Food Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 WHOA!!!! People lets calm down here... As I read these hostile posts, and look out my window at the 10 inches of fresh, and still coming I can't help but think we're all on the same side here, and fighting over a stupid point. Skiing and riding is the livelyhood for many of us, and where we buy our gear means very little once we're out on the slopes using it. Shops will never die and the online business will continue to get stronger. Each has their place in the market. Thanks to E-bay and the online used ski trade our sport has become a little less expensive to get into. Which only means we have opened it up to more people. Now isn't it a good thing that others can share in the joy of what was once an elitest (*sp) sport. The equipment we use to slide down hills is expensive (mainly due to the materials they are made of and the labor in producing the final product), and if the difference on what you're riding on depends on where you bought it, then what's the problem. We are all trying to be on top of our game, and the best we can be. Let's not forget the sport, and the passion that we have for it. If you want service you don't goto Walmart, but if you don't want to pay 15 bucks for a Mach 3 blade then you do goto Walmart. Same with buying skis. Except it would be a cold day in Cuba before I ever bought skis at Walmart. What this whole post comes down to is... Lets not let our feelings about whether shops or e-bay is better interfere with the bigger picture. We are all out there to do what we love. The equipment was all made in the same place, once you click in it no longer matters where you bought it, but rather what you do with it after that click. Enjoy the freshies and end the bickering. Ski season is here, let's use it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) No biggie GP Rep.. It's not hostile.. yet.... It's one of those livley debates that frequently crops up. Some of us just can't help but to vent on the subject. Some of us think shops are great for the other stuff they do (benefits) besides sell stuff and others think online is great because they got a great (albeit undermining) deal. We all have diffferent viewpoints (obviously) driven from and for different reasons. I have 2 boys ages 11&12 and when we are not on the snow, a fun activity for us, is to go into these shops just to talk "shop". I haven't had a time that I can remember where it wasn't me saying "c'mon guys it's time to go" If the admission price was all the same of a movie, skatepark, tramp class, rock wall, or hang in the ski shop as a weekly activity, the ski shop visit would rank top. I believe in giving credit where credit is due and the ski shops give us way more than merchandise. It's all good.... For you On a more serious note though, If Walmart was cheaper than online, why wouldn't you buy there? Ski999 and Philbug would. Edited December 9, 2005 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski4Food Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 On a more serious note though, If Walmart was cheaper than online, why wouldn't you buy there? Ski999 and Philbug would. Walmart is the worst company/organization ever created! I sometimes think the Taliban does more good than Walmart! But those are just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Walmart is the worst company/organization ever created! I sometimes think the Taliban does more good than Walmart! But those are just my thoughts. Now see, that shows moral character.. Props to you! - watch how fast this thread gets off topic now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Ski999, Ski shop owners aren't getting rich by any means. I have managed shops and most are surviving year to year. 300% markup? The majority of the inventory is there on 30-50% and less as the year goes on. "Long margin" had become a bit of a buzzword, but that stuff is just being marked down further. I am speaking of my experience with the Pelican owner when I was a kid. He did indeed get very rich off the sweat of shop kids. And 300% markups are pretty common. $800 skis? C'mon...$129 junior helmets? Try $40 wholesale. Isn't that a300% markup? The root of the problem is that ski manufacturers refuse to sell large quantities to retail chains. If Atomic sold 500 sets to my local Dick's Sporting Goods, you stop hearing the crying like you from shop owners about all their overhead and tiny margins. Dick's would sell those $800 Atomic GS:11's for $325 and make $50 per pair. Do you buy computers from a tiny mom and pop shop? Do you buy your cars from the smallest dealers in town to keep them in business? Hey, if you guys drive out of your way to pay more at all the small shops to get groceries and prescriptions and everything else, then that's your decision. My family has several charities we contribute to each year. I like the guys at my local shop, but I'm not giving the owner an extra $400 for a pair of skis...I'd rather send it to Feed the Children. On a more serious note though, If Walmart was cheaper than online, why wouldn't you buy there? Ski999 and Philbug would. Why not? WalMart is seen as the Evil Empire to some people. It's America's largest employer and in a free-trade society, they've been amazingly successful. If you bash WalMart then go out and shop at a chain grocery store, mall, or watch a movie at a metroplex-type theatre, you're a hypocrit, aren't you? Oh, and is your car American made? If not, then keep in mind all the good folks in Detroit your screwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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