RidgeRacer Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Would anyone else like to see Nastar at JFBB?? I personlly would love to as I had a great time last season with it and I plan on doing more this season but would like to do it at JF. If enough of us want it and request it is there any chance we could make it happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 There's really no excuse for any Pocono ski area to not offer NASTAR, especially when they bend over backwards to create expensive pipes and parks. A modest 14 gate NASTAR course costs next to nothing to maintain and actually brings in enough money to cover the cost of staff. Any local ski area that refuses NASTAR's sales pitch to become a participating resort is just spitting in the face of everyone that isn't a park rat jibber...especially considering a modified GS course is a great ski school training tool. Even better, IMO, a PA ski area should offer FREE ski racing. Free, just like the f*cking parks and pipes are free. JF/BB has already said NO to a NASTAR salesperson. Call JF/BB. Email JF/BB. Remind them of the hundreds of people that showed up for the Mountain Dew Vertical Challenge. Tell them they are lame for not offering public racing every weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 NASTAR racers unite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 There's really no excuse for any Pocono ski area to not offer NASTAR, especially when they bend over backwards to create expensive pipes and parks. Even better, IMO, a PA ski area should offer FREE ski racing. Free, just like the f*cking parks and pipes are free. while i agree that there's no reason all the areas around here couldnt, and shouldnt have nastar, comparing them to parks and pipes is an argument that will neither start nor end well. they're different entities catering to different crowds, and both should have their place at ski areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 while i agree that there's no reason all the areas around here couldnt, and shouldnt have nastar, comparing them to parks and pipes is an argument that will neither start nor end well. they're different entities catering to different crowds, and both should have their place at ski areas. Huh? I'm not arguing against parks. Where else would Doug be able to practice Smartstyle? My point is that a number of Pocono ski areas choose to charge people to recreational race at the very best----at the least, they have no racing at all. And this is while spending a ton of money on the jib side. That's all. The rush to satisfy the surge of newschoolers has left a total void for recreational racing. Make sense? Think about it this way, Justo: imagine you, your mom and dad all loved to hit the park for fun----not part of a team with coaches. Your family spends $1200 on a family pass for three, then every Saturday and Sunday the three of you hit the park and it cost you SIXTY dollars a weekend to ride the pipe all day. An extra $240 a month to hit rails. Yep, that's what it costs a family of three to ski NASTAR for a couple of morning and afternoon runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Park rats can practice for comps anytime in the park, there should be some practice gates setup at all time for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Are there any reasons why a ski area would choose not to offer Nastar??? Initial investment in timing gear, gates, and providing staff. NASTAR eventually pays for itself, but it takes effort to get it in place. NASTAR's website and the whole national handicap system is a real hook for a lot of people, but I think resort managers would be surprised at how many people would be just as happy with a budget timer and one staffer to do course maitenance to be able to run free gates. One of the shittiest things about NASTAR, IMO, is that a 17 year old kid can't ski up to the start house with his five bucks and run the course. NASTAR turns away everyone that isn't 18 that doesn't have a parent with them. I've had to do this dozens of times at Mont/Sno (when it's busy and I help with sign in's) and I feel like crap every time. But those are the rules. Again, I'm not bashing NASTAR---thank God for NASTAR, or there would be no recreational racing. But I think racing has to be cheaper and available to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Huh? I'm not arguing against parks. Where else would Doug be able to practice Smartstyle? My point is that a number of Pocono ski areas choose to charge people to recreational race at the very best----at the least, they have no racing at all. And this is while spending a ton of money on the jib side. That's all. The rush to satisfy the surge of newschoolers has left a total void for recreational racing. Make sense? Think about it this way, Justo: imagine you, your mom and dad all loved to hit the park for fun----not part of a team with coaches. Your family spends $1200 on a family pass for three, then every Saturday and Sunday the three of you hit the park and it cost you SIXTY dollars a weekend to ride the pipe all day. An extra $240 a month to hit rails. Yep, that's what it costs a family of three to ski NASTAR for a couple of morning and afternoon runs. i totally see your point, and agree that there should be some sort of easier way to allow people to run gates of some kind if that's their thing. i also think the under 18 thing is dumb, and would most likely be able to be eliminated if there were some type of course set up all the time. the only time i had to sign waivers and have my parents sign off on stuff when i was under 18 was for comps, which i guess is what nastar ultimately is. you're riding a portion of trail that is not open to the public and therefore somehow isnt covered under the resort's general liability insurance i guess? i guess my point was that its not really a valid comparison based on the different crowds that they draw, and also the number of people that they draw. from a marketing standpoint, i just dont see nearly as many people being stoked to go ride at an area because of their new timing setup and brush gates on their nastar course as i do people being stoked to ride the superpipe thats groomed nightly or hit the new stupid art sculpture of a rail that blue might decide to make for this season. not saying either side is right or wrong, thats just how i perceive the ski areas' ideas of what is more worth their investment, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddyk Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 I asked an employee at a resort why they don't leave up the gates for the public to use. His response was liability. I just responded by asking, putting rails and all sorts of stuff all over parks isn't a liability?....I got no answer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 I asked an employee at a resort why they don't leave up the gates for the public to use. His response was liability. I just responded by asking, putting rails and all sorts of stuff all over parks isn't a liability?....I got no answer . Our small ski area has pretty much the same type of insurance as any other ski area in the Poconos and nowhere is there a mention of needing a waiver for a GS gate. That's just one of those quick BS answers. The thing is, I think, just that people run over and break gates if they are left unatttended. We leave the race course at our hill up after the races and five of them will be sideswiped out of the snow 10 minutes later. And Break-A-Ways aren't cheap. Can they add some risk of liability if they are knocked down and left lying around? Of course. It's just easier for the resort to just not bother. Justo: I don't disagree that jibbers totally outnumber racers. If you think about it, jibbers outnumber basketball players from your school, as well as baseball and soccer players. Ski racing is more comparable to those sports than it is to jibbing. Not judging as a good or bad thing, just that it's a different thing. I just believe ski racing has an important place and a lot of ski areas don't want to bother. Come to think about it, what if CB decided they could expand their tubing to the main mountain? What if it became more profitable to be one huge tubing area? It isn't as far fetched as you think. Some small skis areas have already done it. 25% of our ski hill was recently turned into tubing. But wouldn't that just seem really wrong to the jibbers and park rats? To be told that a resort can make more money off of tubing, so you need to find another place to ride... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) It's wierd that parks can progress the way they do but race gates do not. I think it has to do with the people (types of personalities) running the parks/gates. Would park crew staff a race course. Certainly! Would a race crew staff a park? Doubt it. Edited August 28, 2007 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 The race crowd is rapidly declining while the freestyle/park crowd is exponentially growing. That's where it all lies. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Hasn't there been a push to get resorts to put up brushes for gates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRacer Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 The race crowd is rapidly declining while the freestyle/park crowd is exponentially growing. That's where it all lies. IMHO. Even if this is the case, I still think setting up some gates and a timer on one trail for a few hours a day likely during the weekend, having racers pay the 5 bucks or whatever and letting them have at it for a couple runs makes total sense. Blue just recently started running NASTAR I believe...not to mention all of the major resorts in the area do it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollyskeez Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 The race crowd is rapidly declining while the freestyle/park crowd is exponentially growing. That's where it all lies. IMHO. i think its because alot of kids get introduced to skiing and riding by school ski trips. whaen they first see park riding they r like oooooooooo i wanna try that. iduno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 The race crowd is rapidly declining while the freestyle/park crowd is exponentially growing. That's where it all lies. IMHO. Well, you're opinion is a little bit right. The freestyle/park crowd is growing, but it isn't because less kids are racing. The parks are getting crowded by the kids who wouldn't otherwise be skiing or boarding, or kids that would otherwise just just tooling around the mountain. Hey, it's good that you are happy to wait to drop into a hit. It's cool that you welcome the torrent of newbies and don't mind sharing the parks. This comes from stats provided by resorts (SAM mag), not opinion. The NASTAR National Championships had 1300 racers last season, which is just too big even for a place like Steamboat Springs. During last season, 7000 racers competed at more than five different events. And this is just the recreational racers. You do know Fluffy, that NASTAR is just a small portion of ski racing in America? There are high school race leagues, race academies (schools), as well as collegiate racing. There are literally thousands of junior ski racers who have families that committ tens of thousands of dollars for the opportunity to race. I've read stories that say the trend for park/pipe is away from snowboarding and back to skis. And the trend is away from pipe, over to park. Again, these come from writers using hard numbers. I remember reading that skier-cross was going to burry ski racing in popularity and replace race programs like the one at Blue. How's that going? Fluffy, before you feel too superior while surrounded by the huge numbers of jibbers, go find Skidude (he's one of the long time members and mods of this site that is a junior ski racer) and take a run with him. One trip down a diamond with him and you'll see why kids get hooked on race programs. Funny, but it's also pretty much the same reason Jeff drives BMW's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 One more thing...Most junior racers I know don't race to be with their friends. In fact, they are usually away from their friends to train and race. It's a whole different world. It's a place of personal challenges, usually achieved under miserable, lonely conditions. Racing just isn't for everybody. It's 95% work and 5% fun. Even the vast majority of the elite, top 10% of racers will never even win a single race. The 30 kids that signed up for your high school wrestling program aren't in it for the party atmosphere. It isn't a 'fun' thing to do five days a week after school. Volunteering for that sort of torture just isn't cool for most kids. I'm really just saying that ski racers don't care what most people think. They are in it for their own reasons and not to just hang with the biggest crowd. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 It's wierd that parks can progress the way they do but race gates do not. I think it has to do with the people (types of personalities) running the parks/gates. Would park crew staff a race course. Certainly! Would a race crew staff a park? Doubt it. Jeez, you'd be lost if you couldn't use the word 'progress' any more. And, uh, yeah, all race coaches are mean bastards and all park crew people are f*cking saints. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) One more thing...Most junior racers I know don't race to be with their friends. In fact, they are usually away from their friends to train and race. It's a whole different world. It's a place of personal challenges, usually achieved under miserable, lonely conditions. Racing just isn't for everybody. It's 95% work and 5% fun. Even the vast majority of the elite, top 10% of racers will never even win a single race. The 30 kids that signed up for your high school wrestling program aren't in it for the party atmosphere. It isn't a 'fun' thing to do five days a week after school. Volunteering for that sort of torture just isn't cool for most kids. I'm really just saying that ski racers don't care what most people think. They are in it for their own reasons and not to just hang with the biggest crowd. Make sense? I agree with both of your above posts. Believe that?! Except for the fun part. Many kids will never be competitive at the races. Most of them still have plenty of fun. It's a different kind of kid and they travel far to be with there race friends. Racing is much harder for a kid to have success. There is no judge to determine who wins. It's you against a clock. Kids win or lose by a 1/100th of a second. No gray area there! Your buddies being judges doesn't help you! It's much easier to go in the park and still be cool even if you can only do the most basic tricks. I think this is why many kids gravitate to the park. That's good thing! They can be cool without much risk of failing. Like Ski said "it's a whole different world". Now follow some of those kids that race through the park, they can ski. Edited August 29, 2007 by First Grade Teacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Jeez, you'd be lost if you couldn't use the word 'progress' any more. And, uh, yeah, all race coaches are mean bastards and all park crew people are f*cking saints. Simple as that. progress.. park skiing is changing, evolving and growing. I can't think of another word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Most of them still have plenty of fun. Yes, a different kind of fun is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poop Posted August 30, 2007 Report Share Posted August 30, 2007 if anything they should do it at jack frost, not BB. so i dont have to put up with that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poop Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 i cant stand nastar. only type of racing on snow i can put up with is slalom shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poop Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 lol yeah right, hardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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