Ski Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Huh? They don't suggest that! "Teminal velocity" is called Cap time, it's the time it takes to tuck the hill without gates. All it tells Nastar is if the courses are too straight. They don't suggest it? Uh, yes they do. If they didn't want pacesetters to do it, then why would they have a name for it? We jokingly called it the Terminal Velocity time because that's kind of what it is...I only know this from the years I volunteered for NASTAR. ah yep You sure I was wrong, Rob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 You sure I was wrong, Rob? huh? about what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 They don't suggest it? Uh, yes they do. If they didn't want pacesetters to do it, then why would they have a name for it? We jokingly called it the Terminal Velocity time because that's kind of what it is...I only know this from the years I volunteered for NASTAR. You sure I was wrong, Rob? OK, before this turns into ANOTHER Ski/Rob fight, let me say this...........Be careful on those "Terminal Velocity" runs! You don't want your hair to catch on fire. That would be "Terminal"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I still don't know what either of you disagreed with me about. For more than 20 years, NASTAR HQ has requested that a pacesetter do exactly what 'Dude was explaining---pushing out of the wand and skiing a straight, tucked run down the course, not using any turning gates. We used to call it trying to reach terminal velocity, which may not be scientifically or mathmatically correct, but we weren't exactly rocket scientists. The pacesetter was then to compare this time with his pace time and it was supposed to be within a certain percentage. It's one way to measure if a course is too turny, or too straight. IMO, the alternative is to LOOK at the course, but NASTAR---especially in the early years---often deals with non-racing ski school employees for course sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I still don't know what either of you disagreed with me about. For more than 20 years, NASTAR HQ has requested that a pacesetter do exactly what 'Dude was explaining---pushing out of the wand and skiing a straight, tucked run down the course, not using any turning gates. We used to call it trying to reach terminal velocity, which may not be scientifically or mathmatically correct, but we weren't exactly rocket scientists. The pacesetter was then to compare this time with his pace time and it was supposed to be within a certain percentage. It's one way to measure if a course is too turny, or too straight. IMO, the alternative is to LOOK at the course, but NASTAR---especially in the early years---often deals with non-racing ski school employees for course sets. They don't do that at BC or Nationals. Everything works off the par time. The pacesetter doesn't do a straight run down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 They don't do that at BC or Nationals. Everything works off the par time. The pacesetter doesn't do a straight run down. Oh, NOW I see what you're saying. No the cap time has NOTHING directly to do with a given day's race. BC has done a cap time run, but they only change one or two gates from race to race, so there's no real need to check it often. And at Nationals, courses are set by professional ski instructors at the very least---professional racers at the most. People like that can just look at a course to judge if it's NASTAR compliant. In USSA racing, there is a very specific range of the number of gates on a given course. There is also a specific amount of space both between the gates and how far off-set they are. But in recreational NASTAR racing, they simply recommend how many gates are set and how much time it should take for a pacesetter to ski it. The cap time can be described as a replacement for more strict gate placement rules. In soccer, cap time is equivalent to the ref checking the goal netting before a game. In baseball, it's like an ump asking the grounds crew to check the height of the pitcher's mound. The cap time is more of a behind-the-scenes measure of the difference between skiing a course around the gates and skiing it straight down the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 They don't do that at BC or Nationals. Everything works off the par time. The pacesetter doesn't do a straight run down. Just like ski said, http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=rules#course The "cap time" is defined as the time it takes a pacesetter to tuck from the start to the finish of their course without going around gates and is the fastest possible time the venue will allow. Maybe you should stop hiding, and get informed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 (edited) Just like ski said, http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=rules#course Maybe you should stop hiding, and get informed Maybe you should shut your pie hole and learn to read! Where do you see that it is recommended that the pacesetter tuck each course for a CAP time? The CAP time is established for a "venue" not a course. The CAP time is established maybe once a year, not for each course. The CAP time is the same all year. Small variations could occur do to snow conditions but would have no impact. If you put 3 turns in a course you will be more than 5% off of CAP. I'm telling you that pacesetters don't do a CAP time run for each course. Remember what I said in a previous post: "Terminal velocity" is called Cap time, it's the time it takes to tuck the hill without gates. Sounds very much like your Nastar rules quote! The only way you can radically change a course to get close to the CAP time is to make it straight. Remember this from the same post: All it tells Nastar is if the courses are too straight. Ski............you know exactly what CAP time is but your soccer and baseball comparisons are off. Pacesetters do not check the CAP time each race. AtomicSkier...........Keep looking for those "Race Stock" stickers. Maybe Atomic can "inform" you of their location! Edited October 24, 2006 by First Grade Teacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Maybe you should shut your pie hole and learn to read! Where do you see that it is recommended that the pacesetter tuck each course for a CAP time? The CAP time is established for a "venue" not a course. The CAP time is established maybe once a year, not for each course. The CAP time is the same all year. Small variations could occur do to snow conditions but would have no impact. If you put 3 turns in a course you will be more than 5% off of CAP. I'm telling you that pacesetters don't do a CAP time run for each course. Remember what I said in a previous post: "Terminal velocity" is called Cap time, it's the time it takes to tuck the hill without gates. Sounds very much like your Nastar rules quote! The only way you can radically change a course to get close to the CAP time is to make it straight. Remember this from the same post: All it tells Nastar is if the courses are too straight. Ski............you know exactly what CAP time is but your soccer and baseball comparisons are off. Pacesetters do not check the CAP time each race. AtomicSkier...........Keep looking for those "Race Stock" stickers. Maybe Atomic can "inform" you of their location! Who ever said they check it every race? Even Ski999 said it isn't established every race. No the cap time has NOTHING directly to do with a given day's race. BC has done a cap time run, but they only change one or two gates from race to race, so there's no real need to check it often. I really don't know what you're arguing about? Ski999 and I both know what the cap time is for, that's why it was established. It keeps the courses semi-offest at least (no time can be within 5% of the cap time). Yes 5% is very small, but at least it's there. As for the race stock stickers, I have other pairs of race stock Atomics, so I know where the stickers are. But clearly, they aren't there on the new ones. The flexes are written on the ski, rather then on the sticker now. Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about NASTAR, care to join us one evening, introduce yourself, I'd like to meet you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Who ever said they check it every race? Even Ski999 said it isn't established every race. I really don't know what you're arguing about? Ski999 and I both know what the cap time is for, that's why it was established. It keeps the courses semi-offest at least (no time can be within 5% of the cap time). Yes 5% is very small, but at least it's there. As for the race stock stickers, I have other pairs of race stock Atomics, so I know where the stickers are. But clearly, they aren't there on the new ones. The flexes are written on the ski, rather then on the sticker now. Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about NASTAR, care to join us one evening, introduce yourself, I'd like to meet you Glad to see your "informed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Glad to see your "informed". Yes, I can read, more then can be said about you. Nothing that I have said in this thread is incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='AtomicSkier' date='Oct 24 2006, 09:15 AM' post='106874' Nothing that I have said in this thread is incorrect. OK now I'm "informed". Thanks! (Hmmmmmm, what happened to my smiley?) I'll bet he got kicked out for disagreeing with an Admin. Funny how that makes them think they have power. Very funny! "I'll show FGT!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidude Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Marry/Mark Do you guys know what trail its going to be on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbike-ski Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 my guess is timberline(?) -all the way to skiers left - I was up on the MTB saturday morning and they widened the sh*t out of it and it was all smoothed out - maybe too smooth, the one headwall was pretty flattened out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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