Santa Clauss Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Palmer P01's Marker Jesters dalbello's Il Moro, getting custom fit by a master boot fitter. They took my K2 silencers for a trade in They are gonna try to get me, a size 12 skate shoe, size 11 work boot into a size 9 ski boot... I have my doubts but he is a master Pick em up tomorrow and fit the boots, should take 2 or more hours, if anyone is interested in what a master boot fitter does i'll try and make mental notes and shit and take about them later the ski corner is amazing, the prices on there ski's are cheeper than discount websites, I looked all night and the ski corner was still $60 cheaper on the boots, plus free boot fitting. i'll list prices if anyone's interested, if you know the palmer's they retail at $910 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Palmer P01's Marker Jesters dalbello's Il Moro, getting custom fit by a master boot fitter. They took my K2 silencers for a trade in They are gonna try to get me, a size 12 skate shoe, size 11 work boot into a size 9 ski boot... I have my doubts but he is a master Pick em up tomorrow and fit the boots, should take 2 or more hours, if anyone is interested in what a master boot fitter does i'll try and make mental notes and shit and take about them later the ski corner is amazing, the prices on there ski's are cheeper than discount websites, I looked all night and the ski corner was still $60 cheaper on the boots, plus free boot fitting. i'll list prices if anyone's interested, if you know the palmer's they retail at $910 just curious, why would you trade the silencer for the palmer...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Lighter, rocker tech, mostly just a performance upgrade... if you haven't seen them yet you should check them out. plus it was a pretty sick deal, from $910 to $560 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycore Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Good luck with the new setup.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Lighter, rocker tech, mostly just a performance upgrade... if you haven't seen them yet you should check them out. plus it was a pretty sick deal, from $910 to $560 i've skied them, and don't ever care to do so again, although it seems you're looking at it as more of an all mountain ski that i would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) sounds like a sick setup..I'm thinking of trying out some Full Tilt Boots.. They are nice boots, the forward flex is kind of cool and they finally come in something else than the bumblebee motif. I like that you can fully customize nearly everything, and the old Rachieles were the shit. Why Jesters ? Edited February 5, 2009 by Johnny Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 should have kept the silencers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorovr Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Why Jesters ? I skied them this year and really liked the way they skied. Never had a release in them, which is unfortunate because I usually like to get an idea of how predictable the release is. I was very happy with my old P series Look bindings, but just wanted something new. The Jesters are lightweight, have very positive engagement upon stepping in, provide a solid platform for the ski, and are pretty bombproof. I blew my knee out in them, but the way I fell I wouldn't blame it on the binding... That is one of those things that is speculative though. I fell in a super weird way and didn't really feel like I was putting much force on the the binding. It was more my upper body putting the force right onto my knee. Every other time I've come out of a binding it has been a twisting force. This felt just like I was going down straight on top of the ski, and unfortunately no binding would release in that case. Boo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I skied them this year and really liked the way they skied. Never had a release in them, which is unfortunate because I usually like to get an idea of how predictable the release is. I was very happy with my old P series Look bindings, but just wanted something new. The Jesters are lightweight, have very positive engagement upon stepping in, provide a solid platform for the ski, and are pretty bombproof. I blew my knee out in them, but the way I fell I wouldn't blame it on the binding... That is one of those things that is speculative though. I fell in a super weird way and didn't really feel like I was putting much force on the the binding. It was more my upper body putting the force right onto my knee. Every other time I've come out of a binding it has been a twisting force. This felt just like I was going down straight on top of the ski, and unfortunately no binding would release in that case. Boo... Good to hear you liked them, I have a pair of JJ's that I'd like to throw Duke/Barons on and wondered what people thought about the Marker toe pieces. The mechanics of the binding are nearly identical to the Look/Rossi P series so I thought retention should be good. How is the screw pattern ? I couldn't throw a P series on the JJ"s because the pattern is so narrow, with the way that ski is constructed chances are I would have pulled them out. I was hoping the Markers had a wider screw pattern. How is your knee doing ? Hopefully you've gotten to the point where you can move around pretty good. Ahh the old phantom foot, the scourge of modern bindings. Some companies have and still are screwing around with an actual heal releasable binding. Far as I know, no one has got it figured out yet. Weird thing is the 50's era Spademan actually eliminated the whole phantom foot thing, maybe we all need to go back to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 whats phantom foot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) whats phantom foot? In some falls, most commonly backwards twisting falls the binding won't release.....ever. This essentially means your blowing an ACL. The reasons for this are actually quite simple. Originally your boot was connected to the ski in a system that had no release (leather straps and so forth) unfortunately in the most common types of falls the ski acts as a lever in opposite force of your leg. Levers can exact tremendous force and consequently leg brakes were very common, additionally due to the way in which the force is applied to the tibia and fibula spiral fractures were common as well. I'm no doctor but spiral fractures can be difficult to treat now let alone in early part of the century. With the rise of stiffer boots and better skis some smart dudes got together and realized this was way too dangerous and essentially came up with the binding we use today. Two springs in the toe and heal, when lateral pressure is applied to the toe piece your ski releases. The DIN is a fancy french word for what amount of force requires compression of the springs, hence why sit skiers and others replace the din spring with metal sheaves or just pin the whole damn thing. There were actually some other designs and in some aspects better designs that for various reasons didn't take off. AFD's, lifter plates, rollers and some other crap was added along the way but binding tech is still pretty much the same as its always been. The Look toe piece has essentially been the same since the 70's and the heal prior to the PX series was essentially the same since the first turntable design 40 years ago. The main drawback to this type of binding is that it only releases from the toe and ski industry bs aside does not release straight up. There have been a few experiments with electronic bindings (Marker) and heal releasables (Tyrolia and Line) but they all sucked. They released so much that you were far more likely to crash into a tree and die than you were to blow an ACL. What's happening in your body is also pretty simple, the toe piece from a physiological point of view only measures force exerted across the lower leg bones (tib and fib). In a backwards twisting fall you femur is jammed into your hip socket and essentially locked, you lower leg is at a 45 degree angle to your femur. The force of the twisting fall is spread not in the tib/fib but across it and ultimately into your femur and knee, because of this there is no force "twisting" the binding open and force continues to build across your whole leg. Eventually you pull your shit together (hammy pulls you up) or something is going to break. ACL is the weakest part and that is what is going to go, the reason they call it phantom foot is because no twisting action or force is being applied across the lower part of your leg so there's no way for the binding to release. This is far more common in women as they generally have weaker hamstrings and generally have smaller intercondylar notches. The way to fix this problem is to have a heal release that would effectively measure force across the femur, the problem with this is there is a ton of lateral force exerted across the heal piece all the fucking time in regular skiing. Up to now nobody has figured out a way in which a mechanical binding can consistently distinguish the difference between people tail gunning and blowing up their leg. This is why people snowboard. Edited February 5, 2009 by Johnny Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSSucks Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Very well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorovr Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 How is the screw pattern ? How is your knee doing ? Hopefully you've gotten to the point where you can move around pretty good. Ahh the old phantom foot, the scourge of modern bindings. Screw pattern is supppper wide. I would put people on a 100mm waist ski during demos with a Salomon binding, and then put them on the same ski with a Jester, and I got an overwhelming response in favor of the Jesters. People said that it was easier to ski, turned better, held an edge better, felt more solid, etc... The knee is pretty good with just getting around, but unfortunately I don't think I'm gonna see the slopes again this season. I was told that light biking would be good for it, so I think I'm gonna get out on Saturday to enjoy this spring-like weekend. Not sure how and when I'm gonna get surgery. Definitely agree with that phantom foot. Thats exactly what I felt. I was leaning back a little bit, and it felt like my leg was bent in a 45 degree angle when my knee gave out to the inside. Ai yai yai... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 ^^^ Thanks for the info man and good to hear you're feeling better. Weird timing but my sister texted me today and told me these guys finally have a working product. Apparently its a 100% real working heal releasable http://www.kneebinding.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycore Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 ^^^ Thanks for the info man and good to hear you're feeling better. Weird timing but my sister texted me today and told me these guys finally have a working product. Apparently its a 100% real working heal releasable http://www.kneebinding.com/ I have the Marker Griffons on my Firstbloods and like them a lot.. I have the Marker M!2's on mt PE's... The Griffons are a LOT nicer than the regular old markers (although I've been pretty happy with those as well with the exception of the fact that they are impossible to click into if there is any snow whatsoever on the plate or on the bottom of your boot...) You'll be happy with the jesters as they are even superior to the griffon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) The jesters are super sturdy and i'm really starting to push this new set up hard and it defiantly has (MAJOR) potential, the boots are super tight (physically & visually) and I can only get in about 8 runs before my feet just, well, tell me enough for tonight, its like they don't hurt as much as loss of feeling/blood flow, they really only hurt on the lift. When I take my feet out I noticed tonight and last night my small toes are like frozen to the toe next to it, its weird... But I knew this would happen dropping 2 sizes, I expected more pain actually. But If they don't get better in a couple days I can have them worked some more. The setup is so much different than the last that it may take some time before I can give a decent review, well mostly because I have only really been skiing for a month and a half, I'm already killing the whole mountain and riding switch, but these are mounted btw center and traditional and the last ski's were mounted traditional, I didn't tell them to, they just did assuming I was a complete beginner. I wanted the palmers mounted btw because they are freeride/freestyle and I will most likely spend 90% on the mountain, I really need to get used to them before attempting park, I also downsized to 171's i know you guy's keep telling me to stay up there 179's but all the guy's in the shop kept telling me this was my size, so don't try telling me I should have gone bigger because I already bought them, paid a ton, and I don't plan on buying new ski's any time soon! It's only 3.15 inches smaller anyway... As for the il moro's, There so much different that I really cant compare them, but they're amazing. I have a pretty stupid question, with the silencer's there was a big target near the tip on one ski so I kept it on the right all the time, I'm just wondering if I should keep the ski's on the same foot every time or rotate them or it just doesn't matter? EDIT: Johnny law that was defiantly an EPIC post, you must be smart, and thank you for the detailed answer, it looks like you probably spent a long time to type that up and I appreciate it. Edited February 7, 2009 by CLAUSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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