backcountry_rider Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 This might not be the right forum for this thread, but it seems most apt out of any on here... What's your take on ski only mountains? I ski and ride. I learned to ski long before I ever saw a snowboard, and before the snowboarding scene really hit the northeast. Now I primarily ride...I'll pull out the skis once or twice a year. So why should I be bitching about ski only mountains? Even I'm not sure...but man do they piss me off. I get the same feeling from mad river glen as I do when I pull into a nice hotel with my SUV. "We're better than you, and you shouldn't be here." However, if I call them up and talk skiing they're happy to hear from me and "can't wait for [me] to visit [them]!" Same person, something different strapped to my feet. What the hell? Are skiers so dainty and precious that they can't be disturbed by the scary snowboarders? I actually get a better reception from college level ski racers when I ride in to time an event (and let's be honest, if they had as much intelligence as ego our society would have no problems. You know who you are.) From the Alta website mountain FAQ: Is snowboarding allowed at Alta? No, Alta is a skier's mountain. Snowboarding is not allowed. Alta Ski Area is committed to preserving and protecting the skiing experience. Snowboarders are encouraged to go on Snowcat Tours. I see, so since snowboarders aren't good enough to grace your utopia of a mountain, they should just go see what they're missing instead? Pretentious, self loving bullshit! So for those guys who love Alta and MRG and the like...what is it that brings you there instead of going to what is probably a better mountain not very far away? Is it because you're attempting to protect your identity as a skier who doesn't like to collaborate with riders? Or do you feel that the mountain truly is superior to those around it? I believe Alta is right next to Brighton...from what I've heard, Brighton actually has better backcountry since it's further up the mountain. I've ridden Brighton bc, but never Alta. An Alta ticket costs $64, Brighton $58. The vert on the two mountains is more or less the same (Brighton is actually hikeable to open up more vert than Alta). So what is it that facilitates this ski-supremacy in the eyes of ski only resorts? /rant This post was catalyzed by a post on a fly fishing board of all things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexkitten Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Meh, as a skier/snowboarder mix myself.. I really don't care. They can have their little skiers-only club with it's 1980's feel to it. Business wise, I think they're probably hurting themselves more than they're helping. Which skier here wants to go up to MRG solely because there aren't any snowboarders? But then again, how many mountains are there spread across this country? You gotta find your niche and market yourselves somehow. Think back only a few years ago.. certain mountains re-invented themselves as park resorts. Their draw was they had some of the best pipes and parks. Now it seems you're not a park resort unless EVERY TRAIL on the mountain has a park on it. It's got to be a tough business to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I snowboard and honestly I can care less. There are 3 of them. For the 3 I can't go to, there are literally thousands of others that I can. MRG actually did allow boarder's for a little while but there were problems them using the single chair so they went back to skiing only. I am absolutely fine with that. *Side Note, I'll actually be in Alta for a week this summer which will be pretty sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptDave Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I would rather do the snowcat/heli ski/ride tour anyways. Fresh tracks I really dont care what Alta, DV, and MRG do. Its their choice. Their are many other great resorts to visit out there. The one thing that I don't like is sometimes riding lifts and say if I was skiing that day and another skier was talking crap on snowboarding or vice versa I was snowboarding and another rider was talking shit on skiing, that stuff is just soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old news. I usually ask them if they tried other equipment, if not why, then lay into them that I do this and that and enjoy both very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootDKJ Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I believe that MRG allows snowboarders to hike up & earn their turns. They are just not allowed on the lifts. I'll be the 1st person to drop a "knuckledragger" joke on the lift, but in turn I also realize that snowboarders are practically the life-blood to many mountains these days. I love watching snowboarders carve. When done well, it looks like so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just campaign to have a snowboarding only mountain and when that happens, go for exclusivity for snow blades. I don't know.. If you don't like the way someone does business, take your business elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) I could really care less about the last 3 remaining ski only mountains. Deer Valley? Why would i want to go there, it's full of rich snobs. Alta? Just go over to snowbird. And MRG, if I'm driving to Northern VT it's to Stowe, or Jay. edit: because i can't type. Edited April 9, 2009 by Dan- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountry_rider Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just campaign to have a snowboarding only mountain and when that happens, go for exclusivity for snow blades. I don't know.. If you don't like the way someone does business, take your business elsewhere? I wouldn't want a snowboard exclusive mountain, to be honest. It wouldn't bother me so much if the resorts weren't so smug about it. Coming from where I lived most people were skiers and were all about ski only resorts. There were actually a couple months back in the 90s when Lake Placid locals tried to get ORDA to make whiteface a ski only resort. Luckily, ORDA looks at $$ above all else, so that worked out in our favor. Root, I don't think they're okay with riders hiking...in '05 when Burton did their poaching contest MRG was pretty pissed when their resort was poached. Take your business elsewhere is the only tactic and so it shall stay. I don't think those resorts will ever change. There are still places where riders and skiers are aggressive toward each other...BS in my book. Bro up and work for the greater winter good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectobar Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Mentioned were: some skiers/riders not getting along, and lift issues. Aside from those is there really any advantage to not having riders? I think I've heard boards mess up the snow, but I can't imagine its any worse than some skier sporting a full pizza. Just seems silly to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Anyone know Taos's business situation since opening their doors/lifts to boarders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I wouldn't want a snowboard exclusive mountain, to be honest. It wouldn't bother me so much if the resorts weren't so smug about it. Coming from where I lived most people were skiers and were all about ski only resorts. There were actually a couple months back in the 90s when Lake Placid locals tried to get ORDA to make whiteface a ski only resort. Luckily, ORDA looks at $$ above all else, so that worked out in our favor. Root, I don't think they're okay with riders hiking...in '05 when Burton did their poaching contest MRG was pretty pissed when their resort was poached. Take your business elsewhere is the only tactic and so it shall stay. I don't think those resorts will ever change. There are still places where riders and skiers are aggressive toward each other...BS in my book. Bro up and work for the greater winter good. The poaching contest was last year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptDave Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Anyone know Taos's business situation since opening their doors/lifts to boarders? I was curious of this also but this past winter maybe tough to compare to previous winters with the economy down the tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountry_rider Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 The poaching contest was last year.. My bad. Don't know why I thought it was '05. I assumed and well...time makes fools of us all. Sweet videos though! I remember reading an article that was more or less flaming Burton for the contest and a bunch of skiers were pissed at the author. They were all supporters of allowing skiing/riding at all resorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin808 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ecto -- Skiiers complain about how riders mess up moguls. I would agree that moguls are A LOT harder on a board than skis and we impact their shape. You are right that it wouldn't make any more difference than a pizza wedge but the reality is that boarders who suck can side slip anything and make it down but beginner skiiers aren't typlically going to slip down a double black run. I think for a few places it a differentiator and they like the notariety it gives them at this point. I've ridden Alta and Ajax (before they let in snowboarders) in the past. I admit I thought it was pretty cool at the time but would not go through the trouble at this point I don't have a ton of respect for the holdout mountains at this point. I mean it's so 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Anyone know Taos's business situation since opening their doors/lifts to boarders? It definitely improved, they are a family run business so no numbers are available but I do know they are in a much better situation than they were last year. Now some of their problems are a result of location and a change in general weather patterns but the additional traffic has helped. This whole discussion if you will is kind of stupid, with the possible exception of DV, discrimination of some kind really isn't present. MRG was actually one of the first places to allow snow boarding and did so until some kind of disagreement with the previous owner, I've heard they got in a fight with her about derailing a chair and she told them to get lost. Its become part of their history and story so it may stick around for some time. You aren't missing anything as there are 4 of 5 mountains in the general area which are just plain better. They have no hard policy but if you earn your turns they don't really care what you are riding. DV is all about the economics, their customers mostly think of skiing the way it used to be, like a country club, lots of bogners and JCK one-pieces. There clientele equates snowboarding with rif raf (which is hilarious) as long as they continue to make money they aren't changing shit. That mountain is a piece of shit anyways and even more of waste of time than Park City so again you aren't missing anything. Alta is the only one where I can see people feeling like they are really missing out on something, they get more snow than the bird and do have some really sick lines. Again this is a case of history and giving their customers what they want. Additionally everything worth riding at Alta is accessed by traverses, no offense but 99% of boarders fuck traverses up so I don't know how much they would get out of it anyway. Your welcome to try it out though, Alta closes when the tourists stop showing up and its on National Forest land for the most part so anyone is free to use the mountain as long as they aren't riding the lifts. Lots and lots of people come over from the Bird and do the Baldy loop. MRG is the only one I see changing its mind anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I believe Alta is right next to Brighton...from what I've heard, Brighton actually has better backcountry since it's further up the mountain. I've ridden Brighton bc, but never Alta. Brighton sits nearly on top of Alta if you would boot up Milly from above the lift and into Wolverine you can piss and hit Alta. Additionally if you went through Catherine's pass its less than a mile. Alta has Supp and Flagstaff, while you can't certainly get their from Brighton it's easier from LCC/Alta. LCC also has easier access to Cardiac and Day's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountry_rider Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Alta is the only one where I can see people feeling like they are really missing out on something, they get more snow than the bird and do have some really sick lines. Again this is a case of history and giving their customers what they want. Additionally everything worth riding at Alta is accessed by traverses, no offense but 99% of boarders fuck traverses up so I don't know how much they would get out of it anyway. PITA for a rider. I don't really think that any exclusive snowboarders are missing out on any of these mountains--there's a lot of great stuff nearby as you mentioned with reference to MRG. You nailed exactly what bothers me though: There clientele equates snowboarding with rif raf (which is hilarious) Hmm...interesting, let me dig into this a little bit (keep in mind I'm also a skier). My assumption would be that, as you mentioned, they serve a specific clientele. Probably mostly older folks, and more conservative folks. I bet it's not so much snowboarders, considering there are many 55+ folks who turned to riding (awesome). So as I go into this, I'd also like to put forth that I'm a freerider...I don't like the park, I don't like a 26" stance, a pink coat, or tight pants...I prefer to go unnoticed on the mountain. If you like to be noticed, no harm no foul, it's just not for me...anyway: It seems that mountains like DV are trying hard to hold a firm grip on the "classical" form of skiing...something they see as more "pure" of the sport. They don't like things like twin tip skis or terrain parks or skiing backwards. They don't like snowboards because snowboarders are put forth in the media as freestyle park junkies. The twin tip ski, the freestyle snowboard, and the park/pipe is a sign of progress. I don't know if these mountains have parks and pipes...they might, but only as a necessity of marketing. After writing that I guess it really shouldn't bother me, since that's the kind of shit that I like about the sport. However, the feeling of elitism is still pretty rampant. I read about MGR and what happened with the riders. That's fine...again, a few assholes fucking it up for everyone. I'm sure that was resultant because they wanted everything their way. Considering the shareholders of the resort, though, I don't think MGR will be changing any time soon either. My posts in this thread are more or less just rants. I like to rant. It's because I'm an opinionated asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rummy Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I was curious of this also but this past winter maybe tough to compare to previous winters with the economy down the tubes. Our gang was in Taos three seasons ago and that was the first year for boarders, if I remember correctly. It was a truely SHIZZY snow year (4'fell the week after we left). I don't recall any negative comments to boarders, I think the locals weren't skiing because of the conditions, and the tourista's didn't give a damn because they are used to boarders at their local hills. I'm a skiier only but I've often given a "nice ride" shoutout to a good carving boarder on the slopes... Everybody should too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Hey Bc rider.. get over it, really... I learned to ride at heavenly when it was delegated to a couple of trails, rode for eight years then went back to skiing. Edited April 12, 2009 by Papasteeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Our gang was in Taos three seasons ago and that was the first year for boarders, if I remember correctly. It was a truely SHIZZY snow year (4'fell the week after we left). I don't recall any negative comments to boarders, I think the locals weren't skiing because of the conditions, and the tourista's didn't give a damn because they are used to boarders at their local hills. I'm a skiier only but I've often given a "nice ride" shoutout to a good carving boarder on the slopes... Everybody should too. taos has only allowed snowboarders since march of '08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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