poconoceancity Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 (edited) In the parking lot it was funny watching a Mercedes all wheel drive SUV rocking back and fourth for 10-15 minutes to try and make it out of their parking spot last night. I guess the old Ford is a lot better than some forign car in the snow just lock the 4x4 and make your own parking spot. I had my ML on the beach in last weeks snowstorm and never came close to getting stuck. The owner probably didn't switch it from AWD to 4WD. Edited March 17, 2007 by poconoceancity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splooshie Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I had my ML on the beach in last weeks snowstorm and never came close to getting stuck. The owner probably didn't switch it from AWD to 4WD. isnt AWD the same thing as 4WD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 isnt AWD the same thing as 4WD? If there a setting for that in a Benz, I'm assuming AWD is rear wheel drive most of the time, only powering the frot wheels when needed, where 4WD has all 4 wheels being powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnbiker99x Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 If there a setting for that in a Benz, I'm assuming AWD is rear wheel drive most of the time, only powering the frot wheels when needed, where 4WD has all 4 wheels being powered. All I know is the guy was stuck and took him at least 10-15 minutes of rocking back and forth to get out of his space. The back wheels would spin then the front would kick in every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Whatever the reason for all of Camelback's lift closures it is unacceptable, no one else has these problems. The exposure of the lift is not an excuse for closing it - it is an example of bad engineering. Engineering doesn't mean designing nuts and bolts but the whole situation. The wind didn't randomly come the last 2 years, it is the same every year. The snow/ice is inherent to lift operations and I refuse to believe it is a factor since so many other places run lifts in snow. (And what would it do? The coefficent of friction can't change that much in comparison to the force being applied by the clamp on the cable, I could see it is clogging up the mechanisms, then you need a new mechanism for a lift thats used for SKIING) Maybe they should invest in fixing the issues involved, whether it requires planting some trees to block wind up top or new grip mechanism or something, but it seems like there are more issues at CB than anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycore Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I don't care if there was one single person there, if they paid $ for a lift ticket or season pass then you owe it to them to have as much terrain and lift access as possible no matter what. This is how you retain customers. Forcing people to use an old slow ass lift because some people didn't show up for work.... fire them sumbitches, close the cafeteria and make then hoes work the lift. GIT R DUN Better yet..... Tell those people you're closing for the night, give them gas money and lift ticket money and send them over to a real mountain that will appreciate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Stevenson broke for a couple hours today. Call me crazy but maybe the wind issues are technical issues that either 1) CB is covering up for 2) CB hasn't correctly diagnosed. I do alot of trouble shooting for computers and sometimes things don't add up because I'm not looking in the right place. Maybe CB's sensor are buggy, or the computer has issues. This makes WAY more sense to me than closing constantly when no other place does. This also makes more sense than closing for all sorts of issues which didn't exist previously. I suppose the employee issues are a problem as well. At this point its a bit late in the season to find help. You would think that there would be employees who get paid more because they are available in weather and in tough situations where people don't show. Maybe they have employees like that but only use them in weekend/holiday situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiUtah Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Truth be told. I was helping the lift department today by working the Stevenson from 7:30-4:30. At around 9:30am the Stevenson was having a tower fault running at its regular speed for every chair that past tower one. We found the lifts sweet spot which was about half its regular speed where it wouldn't fault and they let it run for a couple more hours until the mechanics were set to get it repaired and we shut it down and opened up the Raceway. The Raceway closed down at 4 because by the end of the day shift we had only 2 night lift operators show for work when I was leaving. Some day shift stayed later in the day to help out until some extra help was called in for the night shift. You can't run lifts without operators. As for why the Sullivan was shut down in exchange for the Bailey was a direct order from the big man himself. I'm not sure why this call was made, possibly due to old technology but I don't think that was it. Bad decision in my opinion but I am uneducated in the reasoning behind it. The rest of the lift issues today could not be helped. If this isn't understandable to the Camelback haters, I don't know what to tell ya lifts don't get shut down just to piss people off. Were you in the Stevenson base booth friday with the T shirt that read "All Black"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtnbiker99x Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Stevenson broke for a couple hours today. Call me crazy but maybe the wind issues are technical issues that either 1) CB is covering up for 2) CB hasn't correctly diagnosed. I do alot of trouble shooting for computers and sometimes things don't add up because I'm not looking in the right place. Maybe CB's sensor are buggy, or the computer has issues. This makes WAY more sense to me than closing constantly when no other place does. This also makes more sense than closing for all sorts of issues which didn't exist previously. I suppose the employee issues are a problem as well. At this point its a bit late in the season to find help. You would think that there would be employees who get paid more because they are available in weather and in tough situations where people don't show. Maybe they have employees like that but only use them in weekend/holiday situations. I was wondering why the Stevenson was running very slow that day and Sullivan seemed to be turned up a noch. The Stevenson was shut down the 1st day that side of the mountain was open, so maybe there really are some issues with sensors on the lift. Someone said a "pully adjustment" that 1st time and within 45 minutes after a mechainic showed up the lift was back in business. Its better to get everyone off the lift and make the repair than having to be stuck on the lift and being roped down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadows Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 so if they knew about a problem, why are they taking all season to fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Well I don't think the lift having technical problems/wind issues are Camelback's managements fault. Especially now - the lift was installed in the mid 90's, a decade ago. How many of the people involved in that decision are still around? Probably not many. I think it looks like poor engineering, meaning site considerations, and that would not be Camelback's fault. However anything can be fixed if enough money is thrown at the problem so either they need to buy a new lift or get the engineers back in to figure out how to get it running more often. Maybe cut back on the Camelbeach investments and buy a new lift. I wouldn't blame them for trying to keep their customers safe if the lift is having a bunch of problems - but the amount of time it is down is not normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Well I don't think the lift having technical problems/wind issues are Camelback's managements fault. Especially now - the lift was installed in the mid 90's, a decade ago. How many of the people involved in that decision are still around? When you buy a business, you inherit all the old problems and it's up to you to get them fixed. CB has so much capitol that they are puking money...but I sure don't see where they are investing back into the ski side. Here's a new story from 2 years ago: "Considered the gem of the resorts in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains, Camelback is the largest area in the region, with a solidly profitable summer season to complement its winter operations. Those factors alone make Camelback appealing as an acquisition. But it was locally grown and faithful Camelback skier Arthur Berry -- he first skied at Camelback when he was six -- who plunked down $48 million and walked away with the prize. Berry, a 40-year-old entrepreneur who has founded and turned over a number of enterprises in the Poconos, formed a new company, CBH2O, LP, to acquire Camelback. The seller, Sam Newman, had been in charge of the recreation center for the past 19 years and will stay on for three years as a consultant. Camelback began operations in 1963. Camelback's new owner at Camelback plans to keep the existing operations teams intact and do little to the mountain in the short term." Berry bought it to flip it, just like he's bought and flipped everything else. When you buy to flip a property (buy something low, do small improvements, then sell it for a profit), it isn't about taking care of customers, or anything else except making it attractive to the next owner. Berry openly stated that he wasn't planning improvements and certainly hasn't worked the customer service end. He wants status quo, nothing to get broken, avoid lawsuits, and have his property appreciate to a certain level before dumping it for a small fortune. I'm sure glad he didn't buy Sno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeless Posted March 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Of course we close them just to piss people off! It obviously has nothing to do with safety, wind, ice, or anything like that. For the number of people that were here, the Bailey lift was plenty. The groomers got out on the rest of the mountain early, so whatever falls later tonight will be on top of fresh groomed. It will be sweet. We had wind around 25-30 with gusts up to 60mph coming straight up and from the north west across the mountain. Maybe our exposure is different than other places, I don't know. I would prefer to not have to do a lift evac because someone wasn't being cautious. If you made your decision to not come out tonight because you can only ride high speed lifts, than I feel sorry for you. I had a whole bunch of really good runs in some really good snow. Tomorrow is even going to be better, because the east side was preserved a little. Go ahead and fault us for leaning towards safety and cautiousness. Remember that when your stuck on a lift that was derailed by the wind and you have to wait to be rescued. The only problem with the bailey is that it's a double and I was with two children who though very good skiers are not happy riding the lift alone, any solution for that one? That's what sent us home. The fact that the new snow was preserved better for the saturday crowd doesn't really help when you are a sunday-friday pass holder and have made the trek through the snow to get there Friday afternoon. It's got nothing to do with caution, it was about making it easier to get open on saturday when the bigger day ticket crowds arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 You cant run lifts when operators cant get there, and they wont turn if the safety devices wont let them. You must always weigh the risk - benefit ratio and err on the side of safety. I know most of you will not like that answer, but, my guess is you don't own an insurance based business either. Part of "risk management" is creating as "safe" of an environment as you can in a very "unsafe" environment. On a cold, windy, snowy and dark night, it would take us close to 2 hours to rope evac a quad (with a little luck). Factor in a decreased staff (like friday night), and that time goes up. Now I am not fully versed on what the "issues" are with CB's detachables, but, if the likelyhood of a malfunction increases when you add the weather variables, then I am OK with them shutting them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarrisburg Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 A SKI RESORT CLOSED BECAUSE IT WAS SNOWING. does not compute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski911 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 We were open till 10pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 We were open till 10pm. With no HSDQ's and very limited terrain. Blue had both lifts spinning, the one being as old as the Stevenson and 100% terrain open. As a patroller, I bet you love when they shrink the mountain. As a customer, I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarrisburg Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 We were open till 10pm. Running one fixed grip double is not "open." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 (edited) A SKI RESORT CLOSED BECAUSE IT WAS SNOWING. does not compute it happens, and it does compute. I do think CB jumped the gun though I think the only excuses should be if the roads are impassable (ambulances couldnt get through if someone got hurt) or if the snow piles up so fast you couldnt keep enough clearance under the lifts. Ski lifts are engineered with snow in mind (much more snow than an 18" noreaster will bring) so there is no reason to close lifts in fear of a mechanical failure due to snow. I do wish jeff and doug would stop comparing CB to blue though. Blue is farther south, is warmer, and generally gets much less snow than CB. the "blue was open and so should you" argument is getting old and holds very little weight. I remember JFBB closed early during the christmas 2002 storm because Penn DOT closed route 940. We had to chill in the lodge till they reopened the road at like 6:00 pm (they closed the lifts at like 1:00 or 2:00) Edited March 19, 2007 by jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 it happens, and it does compute. I do think CB jumped the gun though I think the only excuses should be if the roads are impassable (ambulances couldnt get through if someone got hurt) or if the snow piles up so fast you couldnt keep enough clearance under the lifts. Ski lifts are engineered with snow in mind (much more snow than an 18" noreaster will bring) so there is no reason to close lifts in fear of a mechanical failure due to snow. I do wish jeff and doug would stop comparing CB to blue though. Blue is farther south, is warmer, and generally gets much less snow than CB. the "blue was open and so should you" argument is getting old and holds very little weight. I remember JFBB closed early during the christmas 2002 storm because Penn DOT closed route 940. We had to chill in the lodge till they reopened the road at like 6:00 pm (they closed the lifts at like 1:00 or 2:00) Nobody else has high speed lifts in Eastern PA to compare to, so who else am I going to compare them to? And Camelback gets marginally more snow, and if anything, because of the temps, Blue has to deal with more ice then CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 why did blue have to close earlier this year? JFBB had the foresight to blow enough snow, why didn't blue? Blue must just not care about their customers. Why did JFBB close the other day due to the rain? Camelback and Shawnee were open. JFBB must just not care about their customers. Why did shawnee not get fully open till the middle of february? JFBB, CB and Blue all care about their customers enough to get everything open, why didnt shawnee? Sno mountain didnt open at all till late january... they must not care about their customers Every ski area has faults and they all have to close sometimes for different circumstances. comparing different ski areas is like comparing apples and oranges. Also, as much as you hate CB, they generally stay open until there is not enough snow for them to stay open any longer, unlike most other ski areas in NEPA. They get a more direct hit from the sun at CB than most other places because they face west, not north. Their snow melts faster making it harder for them to get open and stay open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Jordan, CB now stays open until theyre isn't enough snow for them to be open? Cool! That must be a new policy. And Sno stays open, yet it's colder and gets more snow than CB. But if you step back a little, the Poconos are the Poconos and you're really talking about a few inches, a couple of hundred feet of varying vert, and four to five degrees---I think it's pretty safe to compare areas within this region. I know Jeffy and Doug are a little harsh with CB in a neverending sort of way, but CB needs a kick in the ass as a reminder that passholders are still out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 It's well known that CB closes when ticket sales stop not when they run out of snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 If this isn't understandable to the Camelback haters, I don't know what to tell ya lifts don't get shut down just to piss people off. They are shut down when there is limited usage due to things like snow, ice, rain, fog, wind. Go ahead and fault us for leaning towards safety and cautiousness. Remember that when your stuck on a lift that was derailed by the wind and you have to wait to be rescued. Have that actually happen and then you will have your reason to fix your aging lifts. I would be happy to sit on the lift for a long time, if I was assured that you would fix the problem. CB has consistently wasted many hours of our time traveling. Sitting stuck on the lift is small price to pay in comparison to what you guys cost me in time and money this year. Berry bought it to flip it, just like he's bought and flipped everything else. When you buy to flip a property (buy something low, do small improvements, then sell it for a profit), it isn't about taking care of customers, or anything else except making it attractive to the next owner. He is thinking a little larger. The hotel expansion is huge. It's well known that CB closes when ticket sales stop not when they run out of snow. This is the one consistent factor that is in direct correlation with all of CB's closure and is a fact. They just use weather as a guise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 He is thinking a little larger. The hotel expansion is huge. Exactly right...but it's not much different than any other construction project in so much as once contracts are signed, it's 100% transferable. Once it looks like it has the appearance of coming in within budget, CB will be for sale again. Mr. Berry is pretty jazzed about seeing just how many people will fit on Honeymoon Lane on a Saturday afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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