LTDSNOWBOARDER Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 Doug with is just one of those times where you keep your mouth shut. And if JFBB did this just to "use" them to make the rails and get there ideas and input thats realy messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 And if JFBB did this just to "use" them to make the rails and get there ideas and input thats realy messed up. If that truly is the case I'm sure ParkLogic could have some sort of legal action against boulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddyk Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) jesus guys..... read the thread. it is explained throughout. I just don't like saying it. Let's put it this way, they didn't quit, OK? To me, it doesn't matter if they quit, or not. They are no longer there. What I was saying is there are only two sides that know what happened. Everybody else is third hand info. Since I wasn't there, I'm not putting blame on either side and I think it is unfair for anybody else to do that. However, right or wrong, you have to do what the boss wants. Edited December 13, 2006 by bigdaddyk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadows Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 this thread is way to long to read all the comments. so im probably missing a lot of good info. I went skiing tonight at bb with gurp, i couldnt tell parklogic wasnt there anymore. parks are still good, they have all the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Basically the ParkLogic guys left creek for a couple reasons. Creek didn't want them to go, thats for sure. One of the major reasons was snowmaking, last season they never got the park at South open, barely got one of the 3 main park trails open, didn't get to finish at least 2 of the jumps they started building etc etc because there was just no snow made. This is clear to anyone who frequented mountain creek over the past few years. You could see they blew enough snow to make the jump, then plowed it out after a warm spell and never replaced them, a simple budgeting decision. So they didn't get fired from Creek. As for leaving JFBB, its not entirely clear, but it doesn't seem to me like the ParkLogic guys would leave. Even if they hated everyone above them, if they bailed on a resort at tge most important time of the year who would ever hire them again? There is no advantage for them to leave just as their project that shows how good they are, is 75% done. Now that last 25% has to be done by a bunch of people who aren't as experienced. I think no matter what the back story, you can land it on JFBB/Peak making the (wrong) decision. The question becomes, what can we do about it? I don't think the park at JFBB will be what it would have been if they were there. Sure, now they have great jibs ready to go that will last for years. Sure, their park crew will set them up well. But, I think we all know this was the tip of the iceberg. Notice they kept saying 'building stock jibs' etc etc. Next season and beyond was the real creative time, they were set up to become a big force in the region, and beyond. (Look at The Park at Bear Mountain, small mountain, big influence) Now, just another park with nice jibs. What are the odds of reconciliation? I'm sure I'll write a letter to JFBB (anyone know one of the higher up's addresses?) but really, is there any chance these guys will stay in the region? Its a big loss of talent for the PA/NJ area. Just kind of sucks, puts a huge damper on really positive impression I got at JFBB this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riderossi Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I'd never been to BB before this year, parklogic is what attracted me and got me wanted to visit. I've been there once so far, i'll be going again this week. i'm sure this is the story of a lot of others also. It's a big loss for BB that's for sure. Parklogic, go to the guys at Sno Mountain and demand a job there...pleaseeee . They won't be open for a couple of weeks, plenty of time to make lots of jibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 BB screwed up. I don't need to hear their side. Parklogic guys are irreplaceable. Parklogic could have easily put BB on the east coast and national map.... and PA mountain no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Maybe they just didn't want to have to compete with Ryan Neptune in the next few years. In all seriousness, what boulder wasn't cool at all. Any mountain would be lucky to have thse guys, they really screwed up bad with this one and they will most definately regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riderossi Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Maybe they just didn't want to have to compete with Ryan Neptune in the next few years. :rofl 'One of the best parks in the world' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 :rofl 'One of the best parks in the world' You won't be laughing when we have the Olympic trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riderossi Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 You won't be laughing when we have the Olympic trials. eh, maybe you're right, but by then i'm hoping to be living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 The question becomes, what can we do about it? I don't think the park at JFBB will be what it would have been if they were there. Sure, now they have great jibs ready to go that will last for years. Sure, their park crew will set them up well. But, I think we all know this was the tip of the iceberg. Notice they kept saying 'building stock jibs' etc etc. Next season and beyond was the real creative time, they were set up to become a big force in the region, and beyond. (Look at The Park at Bear Mountain, small mountain, big influence) Now, just another park with nice jibs. What are the odds of reconciliation? I'm sure I'll write a letter to JFBB (anyone know one of the higher up's addresses?) but really, is there any chance these guys will stay in the region? Its a big loss of talent for the PA/NJ area. Just kind of sucks, puts a huge damper on really positive impression I got at JFBB this weekend. Well put. Little pieces of information are coming through via PM's, what is ironic, is that they pinpointed exactly who caused the problem from 2000 miles away. Now, how would past BB loyals know who caused this? This is a sad event for our region and totally uncalled for. I still can't figure out why this couldn't have been handled more delicately. What can we do about? Bear Creek did a public forum for the park riders last year. BB - I know you are listening. I think it would be a great idea to have a public meeting to us and listen directly to us in the form of a meeting. BB screwed up. I don't need to hear their side. Parklogic guys are irreplaceable. Parklogic could have easily put BB on the east coast and national map.... and PA mountain no less. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 What can you do? Go somewhere else. If you don't like the way a mountain operates, go to another mountain! Good luck trying to tell JFBB who they have to keep around! Parklogic probably thinks they know everything and ended up getting fired because of it. Get over it. It's just rails and jumps, you don't need a scientist to build them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 What can you do? Go somewhere else. If you don't like the way a mountain operates, go to another mountain! Good luck trying to tell JFBB who they have to keep around! Parklogic probably thinks they know everything and ended up getting fired because of it. Get over it. It's just rails and jumps, you don't need a scientist to build them! I think what everyone is upset about is right now, they all bought season passes and they don't want to go to another mountain. And yes, we can't tell jfbb how to run their business and who to hire and fire. I own a bowling center. if I took out major press releases and hyped the fact that I was going to dramatically improve an untapped area of my business, lets say sport bowling. Then I said I would redo my lanes and devote 50% of my center to that area and I had recruited the best in the area. Then I had an influx of new league bowlers that were excited about the new changes. Just as the league was about to start, I fired my team. I admit, no one knows the whole story, but it just seems like a bad business decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 ^couldn't edit...that being said, I am going to keep a positive outlook. Peak did spend a lot in snowmaking upgrades. No more negative threads for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insomniac Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 If this was said, then I'm sorry, but I don't feel like reading all this crapola. All I have to say is Park Crew = Setups Park Logic = New Jibs Park Logic ≠ Park Crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I know it dosent matter to the loyal passholders at BB but i was up there yesterday and i thought it was awesome!!! im just as dissapointed as everyone to here that Park logic is leaving but i thought BB's park crew is doing an amazing job!! they were out every hlaf and hour grooming everything, which is really nice considering most mtn's groom the stuff in the mornign and then just let it go the rest of the day. soo BB park crew keep up the good work, i think despite this obviouse set back you guys are still gonna have on of the best parks around. p.s.- I saw them building some of the new "big jumps" on tannenbaum or merry widow or w/e (sorry i dont know the name of the trails) and they look SICKKK!!! cant wait to go up there when they got everyything set up and fully running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 What can you do? Go somewhere else. If you don't like the way a mountain operates, go to another mountain! Good luck trying to tell JFBB who they have to keep around! Parklogic probably thinks they know everything and ended up getting fired because of it. Get over it. It's just rails and jumps, you don't need a scientist to build them! I almost didn't reply to this, because I know you are basically just a contrarian on every thread and this is no different, but I will anyway. No, building a park isn't rocket science (which, going for school for aerospace engineering, I feel like I'm in a good position to judge). But, it is more difficult than, push snow, insert jib. Notice all the people who know park, ride a lot of park, are pissed off. All the people who see it as a bunch of welded metal and pushed around snow are asking - whats the big deal? The big deal is, these guys knew how to build great jibs. Smooth = Safer. You would rarely catch an edge on their stuff. They also really proportioned jibs very well, they had an eye for it. A lot of times things just aren't built to the right scale (i.e. Camelback, having a rainbow rail with a radius so small that it basically just launches you). They setup their features with a lot of flow between features, there were always good lines. They made very efficient use of space, they would squeeze out a double line where most people only put 1. Most importantly, they were original. They started the race for a good park around here so we owe them that. They were the first guys building really solid jibs down here (now it still only them and BC IW). They started the wallride fad. I didn't like the stepped rail phase, but they tried something new. A trail of wooden features last year was really cool. Slant boxes. No more circus rails (Blue still needs to learn that one). They had big jumps when no one else did. Overall, they pushed the area. That is what will be missed. They won't go back to Creek, they aren't at JFBB, and no other mountain around here has the program for them, so they are done in the area. In terms of them being no-it-alls, have a conversation with them and tell us that again. They are some of the only ones who actually listen to what customers say (aside from Bear Creek, and a little bit Blue, and Shawnee when Keith was there, but no longer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkbuilder Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) What can you do? Go somewhere else. If you don't like the way a mountain operates, go to another mountain! Good luck trying to tell JFBB who they have to keep around! Parklogic probably thinks they know everything and ended up getting fired because of it. Get over it. It's just rails and jumps, you don't need a scientist to build them! I can not dissagree with you more. Parks have become a resorts "brand" or "icon" for freestyle skiers and riders with or without the ownership's knowlege. Mountains in PA lack the vert of others (New England/West.) People here on the east are slow to react to change and development. If a true devoted management team were to do actual research into freestlye devlopement, they would see a very lucrative investment. Park building has become more of a science than ever before, even now i am in school to learn all aspects of the resort (resort management) so that when issues like this happen in the future I can see both sides holding a management position. People lack the knowlege of actual terrain park management and do not completly realize the concepts, theories, and tactics in use today. There is snow science, maintenance, heavy machinery construction, metal knowlege, welding, surfaces developments, art, marketing, Setup angles, pitchs, geometry, Snowmaking (that's for you Shawn), etc. The only problem is, is that PA has not opened their minds to see how much an EXCELLENT terrain park is now an asset. It is my dream to come back to PA after a few years and provide a state which has given me so much a glimps of what others have had out west, and how much buisness an actual park "program" can bring you. As for the BB park crew... I hope you realize you have big shos to fill. Good luck on the upcoming season. Edited December 13, 2006 by parkbuilder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turBon Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) In terms of them being no-it-alls, have a conversation with them and tell us that again. They are some of the only ones who actually listen to what customers say (aside from Bear Creek, and a little bit Blue, and Shawnee when Keith was there, but no longer). Yea, they listen to the riders. Sure they have a large amount of knowledge on the way a park should be set up and maintained and such, but arent they the ones that called a meeting way before the season started to talk to the park riders up at BB and hear what WE wanted. The fact that someone could call them "know it alls" actually kind of pisses me off. You can sign me up for the petition or riot or world war we all start over this stuff. BIG BOULDER, YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE AND GET OVER YOURSELVES. YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR CHANCES OF BEING A NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED MOUNTAIN FOR PARK. I gurantee, that if ParkLogic had stayed on, that in 2 years we would be seeing pros in Transworld and Snowboarder sliding our home mountain jibs. Do they even realize the amount of money that can make then? Edited December 13, 2006 by turBon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe g Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 method and parkbuilder, thank you, you saved me alot of time in typing. these two hit the nail right on the head. i was going to say exactly what they said. yea, you don't have to be a scientist, or an mit grad, but your average person could not do what we do day in and day out without having a clue as to what goes on. things like cutter's camp are just one example of things that are available for people who build and design terrain parks. i wish more people would understand that building a good terrain park is much more than just throwing some stuff on a trail and calling it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) What can you do? Go somewhere else. we would have if Park Logic had not been there. Understand? they were out every hlaf and hour grooming everything, which is really nice considering most mtn's groom the stuff in the mornign and then just let it go the rest of the day. I think that is the least that we can expect. Most of us are upset over the bigger picture. In terms of them being no-it-alls, have a conversation with them and tell us that again. They are some of the only ones who actually listen to what customers say (aside from Bear Creek, and a little bit Blue, and Shawnee when Keith was there, but no longer). WORD! They do listen, they seek out feed back, they stay on cutting edge of things and are doing everything they can to promote and progress the snow. a true devoted management team were to do actual research into freestlye devlopement, they would see a very lucrative investment. Park building has become more of a science than ever before, even now i am in school to learn all aspects of the resort (resort management) ................................................................................. As for the BB park crew... I hope you realize you have big shos to fill. Good luck on the upcoming season. I think there are 6 hills that are now devoted to full time park. i wish more people would understand that building a good terrain park is much more than just throwing some stuff on a trail and calling it good. Those who eat live and breathe the snow know.. I am hoping that those not familiar with the park can see the passionate pleas in these posts. I wish that I could have everyone that was there in the park opening weekend in a public forum at BB. I guarantee BB would not have done what they are doing had they heard from the park riders first. It's not too late for a reconcilliation. DO IT! edit: cleaned up double post for ya. Edited December 13, 2006 by freeridintre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTDSNOWBOARDER Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 You can sign me up for the petition or riot or world war we all start over this stuff. BIG BOULDER, YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE AND GET OVER YOURSELVES. YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR CHANCES OF BEING A NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED MOUNTAIN FOR PARK. I gurantee, that if ParkLogic had stayed on, that in 2 years we would be seeing pros in Transworld and Snowboarder sliding our home mountain jibs. Do they even realize the amount of money that can make then? I dont understand why people keep saying that BB would have been put on the "national level". Yea they might have gotten SOME coverage, maybe a picture or two in mags. But bb does not have the vertical for it. Pros would not come to BB becuase they have some good jibs and a couple big jumps. They would go to a mtn like Mammoth or Park city where the get 10x the vert, just as good jibs and most likly bigger jumps and have high speed quads and six packs and even gondolas. When BB has next to no vert. compared to these mtns and slow chairs. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggles Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 If this was said, then I'm sorry, but I don't feel like reading all this crapola. All I have to say is Park Crew = Setups Park Logic = New Jibs Park Logic ≠ Park Crew word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Wants To Shred? Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 If this was said, then I'm sorry, but I don't feel like reading all this crapola. All I have to say is Park Crew = Setups Park Logic = New Jibs Park Logic ? Park Crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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