Start of Snow Making Contest

[stever2003]

I have to agree with you there..Boulder totally stepped up their early/late season game and is setting the benchmark..

I agree. I don't care to go to BB because of the lack of vert and lack of difficult trails, but I am extremely impressed with the effort they put forth to open (not just for a weekend but for over an entire week). I've never been a passholder at a mountain (will be next year at Blue) but I would be very appreciative of the mountain for doing something like this if i bought a pass there. BB might not be making a ton off their operation at the moment, but it is a great thing to do for the few hundred people who dropped hundreds of dollars on their season passes in advance. If my knee wasn't messed up at the moment I would probably drive up this weekend and squeeze in a few turns (hell, I might do it anyway with a bummed knee).

[im rick james]

I should know trail names but I don't, the houses at the highest part of Northridge are about the same level as the top of the lifts.

 

lmfao. no f'ing way.

[Ski]

One of the things CB will not do is open a trail with a little coverage just to say "we are open!" It doesn't make sense to do it just to please the few peeps that are on here. They will make sure they have good coverage on a few trails (a better assortment this year) and take advantage of doing it right as opposed to just doing it. Remember, CB has to put alot more snow down because of the size and shape of the base and top areas just to get people to and from the lifts. The amount of snow we need in the base area would almost completely cover BB or BC.

 

You are dead wrong and might want to get out and see how people flood BB's early opening slopes. Jeez, you're actually doing HARM by repeating the same old line, instead of spreading the word about how many kids turn out when a ski area commits to early/late riding and skiing. BB sold over $10,000 worth of tickets by the time we showed up on opening day...

 

"Little coverage just to say we're open"

"Just to please a few peeps that are on here"

 

Dude, CB has piled snow and rolled it out in lanes to get people to the lifts. They have overcome their "enormous" acreage in the past. Sno has to blow a hell of a lot more base area snow than you folks do and somehow they manage it----here's the secret: there's a little switch on the snow gun: turn it to the ON position. Magic!

 

They just CHOOSE NOT to open early. They want zero risk and give the impression of making no extra effort.

 

Instead of excuses and bitching at guests, maybe CB should check out what BB is doing...just a thought.

[Barb]

well said, ski.

[Timeless]

Sno has to blow a hell of a lot more base area snow than you folks do and somehow they manage it----

 

have they?

[Ski]

have they?

 

 

No, I don't mean to say Sno is rushing to open before CB this year. They had to backfill the river summer ride that was just finished. But it took just 48 hours of snowmaking last year to open the Iron Horse lift, which meant roughly three times the area to cover than CB.

 

Years ago, it was a hard fight to get ski areas to allow snowboarding. Are they glad they did?

 

Now, some ski areas are taking full advantage of boarders and jibbers. Why isn't CB?

 

The attitude that park rats are just a few people on this MB is wrong...they are a huge population with money to spend on tickets.

[trtaylor]

You are dead wrong and might want to get out and see how people flood BB's early opening slopes. Jeez, you're actually doing HARM by repeating the same old line, instead of spreading the word about how many kids turn out when a ski area commits to early/late riding and skiing. BB sold over $10,000 worth of tickets by the time we showed up on opening day...

 

"Little coverage just to say we're open"

"Just to please a few peeps that are on here"

 

Dude, CB has piled snow and rolled it out in lanes to get people to the lifts. They have overcome their "enormous" acreage in the past. Sno has to blow a hell of a lot more base area snow than you folks do and somehow they manage it----here's the secret: there's a little switch on the snow gun: turn it to the ON position. Magic!

 

They just CHOOSE NOT to open early. They want zero risk and give the impression of making no extra effort.

 

Instead of excuses and bitching at guests, maybe CB should check out what BB is doing...just a thought.

 

Peak gets it. Not sure any of the other operators do.

 

Below is from an issue of the Deerfield Valley News:

 

"According to Mount Snow general manager Kelly Pawlak, this was the busiest she

[snowboarddude]

did camelback start snowmaking?

[ski911]

Someone has to be the first to open, and it makes sense for a small area, recently purchased with many upgrades (especially snowmaking) and an obvious focus on the "park" riders. It's also obvious that CB will forever get slammed by some of you and may even deserve some of it from your point of view.

Bottom line...CB is anxious to open (they would be crazy not to)but, they are also very careful. The people that are most vocal about this are you on this board with an obvious passion for the sport and only happy when doing it or talking about it.

My guess is that if CB was the first to open, with a park that rivaled the best parks, and heck, I'll even throw in knee deep powder and a sudden extra 2000 vertical, you would still find reason to slam them.

Your negativity will only hurt the sport you "love." I also know I just waisted a whole bunch of time, but, It just cracks me up to read all the comments from the experts on here that know everything there is to know about the industry and how to successfully run it.

Like mom always said..."if you don't have anything nice to say....SHUT UP! (mom was kinda extreme).

[toast21602]

i miss your comments like that.. ya know, the ones that make me puke in my mouth every time i read them.

[Ski]

i miss your comments like that.. ya know, the ones that make me puke in my mouth every time i read them.

 

Ditto.

 

Ski911: my point of view comes from having a financial stake in a small community ski area in which we share ownership, so even though you think we're all just a bunch of idiots, there's actually a great cross reference of people from which to draw ideas here at PASR.

 

Our little ski area with one double chair and three runs has drawn from the input of the many Happy Ass Clowns on PASR and while our golf course loses money, our ski hill is always in the black. We open late because we only own four Areco fan guns and employ two part-time snowmakers. But they get us open when there's one "lane" and just a few jumps because our ski hill employees listen to what the 'owners' want.

 

It's kind of cool to see that it can work. And even though Sno has run into a dozen unexpected problems, their intentions were made clear when they polled every employee to see what changes they should make, then publicly disclosed their to-do list.

[ski911]

That was not my point at all. I was merely stateing that CB will always be viewed negatively on this bored no matter what they do. If you actually think they are not looking to open as soon as they can, your crazy. It almost seems like you think (not just you Ski) that they are not open right now, just to piss you off.

They started making snow when it made sense to. They will open right around when everyone else does (when it makes sense to).

Each mountain seems to have it's own formula as to what works for them. In 45 years at CB, most have been successful. Could it be better? YES!. Is it getting better? Yes.

I'm also not saying you are idiots. It is obvious that some of you are very intelligent and well spoken, my guess is older too. I also understand that you need to vent your dissatisfaction and dislikes of CB (they must have done something very evil)(sarcasm).

[Papasteeze]

I was merely stateing that CB will always be viewed negatively on this bored no matter what they do.

 

They started making snow when it made sense to.

 

 

WOW - I had respect for you and your posts/information/contributions last season. That is diminished. NO doubt that CB has a successful business model. They target the weekend, once or twice a season family ticket and do that well. I laugh when I read about RCR's industry-leading initiative and know that CB actually led the way last season with closing lifts in cold temps and snow for safety reasons.

 

Tell me ski911 - Why did Camelback do thier end of the season Rail Jam? What was the thinking behind that? What was the response here?

 

THey started making snow that night because of a scheduled Channel 10 newscast because they thought it would be cold enough to actually make snow. (it wasn't) If you call that making sense then so be it. Margies First? hahahahahahahahaahahah yeah that makes sense.

[Papasteeze]

lmfao. no f'ing way.

 

 

Oh thats right you have a house at the top of north ridge and look across the valley all the time. or you used google earth. stfu

[jdew]

Oh thats right you have a house at the top of north ridge and look across the valley all the time. or you used google earth. stfu

 

lmfao. no f'ing way.

 

x 2.

 

When you are at the top of the lift and you point down to "your house", that means that it is lower in elevation. Help the handicapped, tis the season.

 

[im rick james]

Oh thats right you have a house at the top of north ridge and look across the valley all the time. or you used google earth. stfu

well, i have a townhouse that is somewhere in the middle, but ive driven to the top plenty on my way to the trash compactor. and like jdew said, when you are at the top near tut/birches you can look down and point down at all of northridge. your best move at this point would be to drop it because in addition to looking stupid, you now look like an asshole.

Edited November 22, 2007 by im rick james

[Tom]

Oh thats right you have a house at the top of north ridge and look across the valley all the time. or you used google earth. stfu

(emphasis added)

 

How old are you?

[ski911]

The end of season jam was very succussful from a "how many people showed up point of view," but, they made very little (if any) money (not that they expected to) and the amount of groomer and park crew time (which was not volunteer) cost quite a bit (not that it mattered). CB wants to do more things like that and will.

As far as I know, the Channel 10 coverage was mostly them because of there weather camera at the mountain (they do a report from the mountain all winter, via the "web" cam). They plan to make snow when the forecast says they can. It did get cold enough to make some, and alot of times the first day is a "dress rehearsal" to final test everything. Usually something breaks (my guess is that happens at most places).

Personnaly, your "diminished" opinion of my comments means very little to me. I work there, and I actually have first hand knowledge of what is going on at CB. Believe me or not, I do not care.

I'll be the first to admit that some of the things that happen at CB make little sense to me, but, most of the time they do.

Like I said before...if CB was absolutely perfect, you would still be negative about them.

[rgrwilco]

not true.. if their park was at least half as good as shawnees, id be plenty happy with cb

[Ski]

That was not my point at all. I was merely stateing that CB will always be viewed negatively on this bored no matter what they do. If you actually think they are not looking to open as soon as they can, your crazy. It almost seems like you think (not just you Ski) that they are not open right now, just to piss you off.

They started making snow when it made sense to. They will open right around when everyone else does (when it makes sense to).

Each mountain seems to have it's own formula as to what works for them. In 45 years at CB, most have been successful. Could it be better? YES!. Is it getting better? Yes.

I'm also not saying you are idiots. It is obvious that some of you are very intelligent and well spoken, my guess is older too. I also understand that you need to vent your dissatisfaction and dislikes of CB (they must have done something very evil)(sarcasm).

 

This is a beaten horse, but since you took the time...

 

1. CB would NOT be viewed negatively no matter what. They invite negativity when they shut down the race team and close with full coverage to demolish a building for a wave pool construction. We paid a huge amount of money for season passes and the race program. Then they LIED about it, denying they had a contract with a starting date for demo work. Just be honest.

 

2. Customer service threw me out of the office for wanting a free ticket for my little kid who qualified in both age and height, then the guy lied and said he was the manager.

 

3. I can list 20 other crappy things that CB has done to my family and friends despite the dozens of season passes I've bought there going back more than 30 years.

 

Leaving CB for Montage was like a weight lifted off my shoulders. A broken down ski area with lousy snowmaking and slow lifts was 1000x better than the product CB was putting out.

 

I don't have unreasonable expectations. Employees don't have to kiss my ass. They simply have to treat my family like they matter. Like the $1500+ annual investment doesn't disappear the moment it gets into their cash register---because that's how CB makes people feel.

 

Man, they should have been bought by the Muellers...

 

Did you know that when Dennis Carlson bought Sno, he threw a party and spent way to much on gigantic shrimp and an open bar, then walked around and sincerely thanked half the people in the restaurant?

 

See the difference?

[ski911]

Ski, I remember the story about your kid and the ticket. I also know that Craig tried to make that right for you and spoke with all involved to find out why it happenned (I apologize if my memories are off about details).

 

I am not sure what you are talking about with the wave pool construction and building demolition, but, I have been there for 22 years and we have closed the mountain with plenty of coverage many times. It is usually a lack of guests that encourages the closures. Sometimes, construction, and various projects will help make that decision easier, but, if people were still coming to ski, they would stay open (most of the time).

 

My guess is that you will notice some changes once Sno's water park is completed (wasn't that supposed to be this past summer?). Having a multi-seasonal resort is very different than a single season area (obviously). The turn around time from winter to summer at CB is very short. If the people are not coming to ski at the end of the season, it makes very little sense to stay open. Other areas do not have that issue (yet).

[Glenn]

I'll chime in and be a civil as I can.

 

No doubt there will be some fanboys of other areas that put down any area that is not their area. I'm not speaking about them. There will also always be people which will have the bad experience when most others find the good. I'm not speaking about them either.

 

My malcontent with CB has always been the decisions made, not the conditions or size of the mountain. Sure the location is obnoxious, but it wasn't a deal breaker, and I'm not going to blame CB and trash talk the mountain because of who shows up. To say they couldn't blow earlier is a lie. To say they would open as soon as possible if it were at all possible is a lie. CB for as long as I have ridden there (not very long compared to guys like ski) have made there decisions to cater to the weekender crowd. Since the weekender crowd will not show up this early, they will not blow.

 

CB has the facilities to put together a great park, but since it's not their target market, who cares. Simply advertising a park is enough to get the weekenders there, and most will hit a jump or two in laurel glade and feel good about themselves.

 

Now, I'm not saying CB should change it's business plan. But couldn't it throw the more "core" (I hate that word) skiers/riders a bone once in a while. Or at least not make decisions that will clearly irritate us. Mostly I'm talking about the horrible lift closures last year, but the park pass did little to improve the park situation as well. The jumps weren't any better, and the jibs only slightly so. The pipes continued to get cut for the weekends or not at all.

 

Anyways ski911. I continued to ride CB for years despite my issues, simply because of location. As such, I really tried to make the most out of it. It was HORRIBLY frustrating to see all other ares in the poconos doing the basics to keep the pass holders happy, as well as using their business plan to focus on a target market. CB's continued success and decisions regarding operation and closings makes it at least appear that they could care less about their pass holders. Their money comes from busses coming from high schools and NYC on the weekends.

 

Many of us here are fairly resonable, and those of us that are will stick up for an area. It's hard to stick up for an area that closes lifts for rain, snow, wind, lack of crowds etc etc etc. It's also hard to stick up for an area that hypes its park so much in all it's media releases, then follows through with unarguably the worst park in the region. It's also hard to stick up for an area which claims it will open at the first possible chance, when other areas nearby warmer (just slightly) conditions opens a week before.

 

I'd be curious to see what other passholders have to say, but I feel that sentiments about the area are similar.

 

Again, I really don't hate CB. IMHO they have some of the best cruisers in the poconos. It's a great place to take less experienced riders, and you can't beat full mountain access through 2 high speed lifts. You can go from one side to the extreme other in less than 15 minutes (assuming the lines aren't bad). Thats awesome. I do have issues with CB and will until they turn things around.

[ski911]

Passholders are a very important part of every area, especially CB. Do you realize how many passholders (most of which do not post on here) complain that we have a park at all? Or allow snowboards? Or have trails dedicated to that type of riding? It is just as many or possibly more than what is being complained about here.

Do we cater to the seasonned, season pass holders that have been buying passes for the last 20-40 years (which are many) or do we forget them and try to please the new (relatively speaking) pass holders?

The idea is to give everyone a descent version of everything (not an easy task). I am not trying to "hype" anything, but, the park guys (and management) are learning from past mistakes (I'm sure that statement caused some eyes to roll). I know that the complaints aren't all about the parks (a good majority). Closures, "safety," etc. all seem to make the rounds here. I'll even admit that I don't agree with some of those decisions, but, in some cases, it does make my job easier (not that it matters).

Making snow and opening early/closing late are also hot topics. CB tries really hard to not waste money blowing snow, just because it is cold enough right now, just to watch it melt for the next 5 or 6 warm days, just to start over again (even though that seems to happen anyway). The unfortunate truth is that this time of year is crunch time for CB. Finishing the installation of three lifts (surface lifts), updateing snowmaking lines, widening trails, and I'll even through in putting away a little waterpark. Yes, other areas do some of these things also, but, they can start at the end of ski season, we cant (on some things).

I think we have beaten the horse, brought it back to life, and beaten it again, so I will make this my last post on this subject. Bottom line is...no one wants CB to open more than me. If you all knew the stuff we have to do in the off season, you'd understand.

[AtomicSkier]

CB's marketing director likes skiing at Blue more then CB

[librider]

CB tries really hard to not waste money blowing snow, just because it is cold enough right now, just to watch it melt for the next 5 or 6 warm days, just to start over again (even though that seems to happen anyway).

 

I highly doubt boulder has lost any money blowing snow and opening early. They have to make a decent profit because its packed everynight. So them blowing snow and opening early definitely made them a profit.