Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Non existent for the most part. Light crowd for a holiday Same story all over PA. People are just not getting out there to make up for lost time. Elk and Sno were dead this weekend as well. the crowds/gapers were horrendous today. i got snaked on litterally every feature one run. glad they got to blow all day though and should be able to though tonight as well. ... Wow, and to think all some of you ever bitched about was the race kids snakin' ya and no one else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollyskeeze Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Same story all over PA. People are just not getting out there to make up for lost time. Elk and Sno were dead this weekend as well. ... Wow, and to think all some of you ever bitched about was the race kids snakin' ya and no one else! i think everyone (including myself) complained about the race team snaking so much because they were a department of bear creek and the kids werent being taught how to navigate through the park safely. maybe they could ski, but they were snaking just like the gapers do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justo8484 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 how's the park looking? might be heading up tonight. did the rain to a ton of damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton71 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 ... Wow, and to think all some of you ever bitched about was the race kids snakin' ya and no one else! Gapers don't know any better. Racers were just being assholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 i think everyone (including myself) complained about the race team snaking so much because they were a department of bear creek and the kids werent being taught how to navigate through the park safely. maybe they could ski, but they were snaking just like the gapers do. Hey Molly, I feel ya. Just good to know they weren't the only ones snaking. I've said this before, they should have been considered general public though, as when they were in the park, it was not during training times. I don't know what the answer to park education is, as i don't frequent them. I know a few places, such as Stratton, has a short clinic that you must attend in order to drop in the park system there. Should Bear do that? Gapers don't know any better. Racers were just being assholes. Thats wonderful to say about kids. Funny, that's likely what we said about the likes of you when they poached runs on the closed race course, so i guess they were no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 how's the park looking? might be heading up tonight. did the rain to a ton of damage? not sure about rain. park was set up real nice yesterday. with 3 rails wide 3 rails deep theres a ton of different lines you can choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton71 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Thats wonderful to say about kids. Funny, that's likely what we said about the likes of you when they poached runs on the closed race course, so i guess they were no better. The kids obviously know the rules of the mountain and the park and time and time again would simply ignore them while bombing or running train lines through the park. I don't care if you are an adult or a kid, when you intentionally cause a dangerous situation on the mountain I'll call you out as being an asshole. And I've never poached a race run in my life. Edited January 17, 2012 by burton71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The kids obviously know the rules of the mountain and the park and time and time again would simply ignore them while bombing or running train lines through the park. I don't care if you are an adult or a kid, when you intentionally cause a dangerous situation on the mountain I'll call you out as being an asshole. And I've never poached a race run in my life. Same old argument. Assuming race kids should know all the rules is an ignorant statement. It's not the job of the coaches to physically teach them proper park manners. Parents don't know either. Let me ask you, how did you learn? How did most people learn? I'd guess through the education of others using the park. It may be a bitch, but if the mountain doesn't give a crap about teaching park rules, then unfortunately it's up to those who use the park. Would it be too hard to pull up alongside someone and kindly point out their infraction? Based on lift rides above 'situations', more often I hear expletives and gestures thrown to try to teach someone of their mis steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 :popcorn: im keeping my mouth shut on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton71 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Same old argument. Assuming race kids should know all the rules is an ignorant statement. It's not the job of the coaches to physically teach them proper park manners. Parents don't know either. Let me ask you, how did you learn? How did most people learn? I'd guess through the education of others using the park. It may be a bitch, but if the mountain doesn't give a crap about teaching park rules, then unfortunately it's up to those who use the park. Would it be too hard to pull up alongside someone and kindly point out their infraction? Based on lift rides above 'situations', more often I hear expletives and gestures thrown to try to teach someone of their mis steps. Give me a break. The same rules they should be being taught about racing apply to the park and just skiing / riding in general. You don't see them dropping in on each others gate runs or cutting in and blasting through the course 10 at time while others are waiting. How do most people learn park rules? They read the sign at the top of the park...they are spelled out clear as day. I have no problem being nice and explaining rules to people who might not understand them. I take issue with people who blatently ignore them. And don't give me the kinds don't know the rules argument. The kids had enough park experience to hit most of the features they know the rules and ignore them and create dangerous situations for everyone...fuck em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASKIINGSUCKS Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Same old argument. Assuming race kids should know all the rules is an ignorant statement. It's not the job of the coaches to physically teach them proper park manners. Parents don't know either. Let me ask you, how did you learn? How did most people learn? I'd guess through the education of others using the park. It may be a bitch, but if the mountain doesn't give a crap about teaching park rules, then unfortunately it's up to those who use the park. Would it be too hard to pull up alongside someone and kindly point out their infraction? Based on lift rides above 'situations', more often I hear expletives and gestures thrown to try to teach someone of their mis steps. You'd be surprised how many times we get dirty looks from parents of kids or young riders when we try to educate them about park smarts or safety in the terrain park. It's our job, so quite frequently we'll simply tell people "hey try not to sit in the landing, or pick your ski up and put it on over to the side so you don't get run over". They look at us like we're some high school principal harshing all over their mellow, when actually we just don't wanna see anyone get run over and sent away in an ambulance. I would love some kind of instructional video or park pass system but I doubt it will ever happen, I mean half the people in our park aren't even park rats......I think I saw a parent with a kid on a leash in the park the other day. I'll never understand why some parents choose to run the kids down black bear when there is a perfectly good flat trail with no features right next to it. Maybe we need a bigger sign, like the caution signs osha approves for industrial type stuff. Maybe a stick figure skier in a landing with a snowboard chopping off his head or something on a huge bright yellow road sign "DON'T STAND HERE" with arrows and exclamation marks and such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Give me a break. The same rules they should be being taught about racing apply to the park and just skiing / riding in general. You don't see them dropping in on each others gate runs or cutting in and blasting through the course 10 at time while others are waiting. How do most people learn park rules? They read the sign at the top of the park...they are spelled out clear as day. I have no problem being nice and explaining rules to people who might not understand them. I take issue with people who blatently ignore them. And don't give me the kinds don't know the rules argument. The kids had enough park experience to hit most of the features they know the rules and ignore them and create dangerous situations for everyone...fuck em. So it's safe to assume, based on your shallow argument, that no elementary kid should ever be caught running down the school halls because it's clearly written in the school handbook. And perhaps you didn't notice that a race course is a singular feature. In that, only one person is ever on a section of that course at a time. A park is wide with multiple features side by side. This assumes that it's possible for several people to be in the same area. Hey, good luck with educating the gapers, your biggest problems have been solved by management, the rest is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASKIINGSUCKS Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't think it's really a matter of kids being ignorant or rude, it's just the nature of the beast. Extreme sports will always be about pushing the limits, that is good in the sense of pushing yourself to progress and fine tuning your skills. Sometimes though it leads to a no holds barred attitude toward bucking the rules because it's cool. We have kids go right around our skis to rail jump off the lips WHILE we are shoveling a feature. That isn't about not knowing the rules at all, that's about looking hard in front of your friends. Unfortunately that will always be a part of sports of this nature I think. Plenty of people know what they're doing and respect the rules, but there are just as many that don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeer_tomas Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sooooo... We're going to be doing a lil build on Cascade tomorrow if anyone wants to talk about that... We're going to try and switch up a few things on Black Bear tomorrow morning and then head over to Cascade for the day. Not sure how much we're going to be able to do over there but we're going to see if we can get at least a line of rails and then something set up in the jump line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton71 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) So it's safe to assume, based on your shallow argument, that no elementary kid should ever be caught running down the school halls because it's clearly written in the school handbook. And perhaps you didn't notice that a race course is a singular feature. In that, only one person is ever on a section of that course at a time. A park is wide with multiple features side by side. This assumes that it's possible for several people to be in the same area. Hey, good luck with educating the gapers, your biggest problems have been solved by management, the rest is up to you. What the hell are you blabbing about. A race course is a trail, 10 kids could train up and bomb it, sit on blind head walls, etc... But there are rules that they follow that say not to. It isn't to much to ask for the same in the park which has rules clearly marked. If you aren't going to follow the rules then don't complain about getting called out in either a nice or not so nice way. To many people ride park at BC to do park passes or a gated and patrolled enterence so that isn't an option. On a much better note, nice to hear about a cascade build definitely looking forward to it. That whale back was fun but a nice rail line or small jump line would be awesome. Edited January 17, 2012 by burton71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 What the hell are you blabbing about. A race course is a trail, 10 kids could train up and bomb it, sit on blind head walls, etc... But there are rules that they follow that say not to. It isn't to much to ask for the same in the park which has rules clearly marked. If you aren't going to follow the rules then don't complain about getting called out in either a nice or not so nice way. To many people ride park at BC to do park passes or a gated and patrolled enterence so that isn't an option. On a much better note, nice to hear about a cascade build definitely looking forward to it. Then come up with a viable solution. I see so many instances of people complaining about ignorance of park rules but no one has a solution. Too many people to do anything about it? Really? then i guess y'all are doomed if that's your answer. Anyway, it's been raining pretty steady here the last hour, hopefully it quits soon, it's getting messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTSKI Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Gated entrance and Park Pass required at CBK. Plus Ranger Patrol for controlling violators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burton71 Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Then come up with a viable solution. I see so many instances of people complaining about ignorance of park rules but no one has a solution. Too many people to do anything about it? Really? then i guess y'all are doomed if that's your answer. Anyway, it's been raining pretty steady here the last hour, hopefully it quits soon, it's getting messy. Yes, too many people ride park at BC for the length of the run to do a gated enterence with park passes. If they did a gated enterence like some mountains do the wait to drop would be way too long and would turn people off. Especially on weekends or holidays. The only viable solution is partolling the park and pulling passes. But the vast majority of mountains, including BC, don't seem to do that until there is an incident...which at that point it is to late. Plus if a ski patroller pulled a racers ticket for bombing the park you would probably flip your shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Making popcorn...lol and of course race kids are assholes...they are mostly rich kids with a sense of entitlement. Uh oh, sounds like a statement from one of those lazy bark humpin' smelly hippies from occupy wallstreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTSKI Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The park at CBK is a little different. The only way into it is by riding the Glenn Lift. (Park Pass required to get on lift) No other way into it. This also sort of controls how many people are in the park at a given time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, too many people ride park at BC for the length of the run to do a gated enterence with park passes. If they did a gated enterence like some mountains do the wait to drop would be way too long and would turn people off. Especially on weekends or holidays. The only viable solution is partolling the park and pulling passes. But the vast majority of mountains, including BC, don't seem to do that until there is an incident...which at that point it is to late. Plus if a ski patroller pulled a racers ticket for bombing the park you would probably flip your shit. Patrollers at BC would def. not be a good idea. They are probably the least active patrollers at any mountain i've been too, at least in the patrolling for safety sense. Just take note how long slow signs are left on the snow before they get picked up. Anyway, just like the park crew, maybe a similar deal can be made for a park patrol that would have the authority to mark tickets. Ski school instructors and race coaches used to be allowed to carry markers in which they drew an X on an offenders ticket (non-park) and if ski patrol caught them and saw the X, the ticket was pulled. Not sure how any of that would work in a park environment, but it's a thought. Also no need for a gate entrance to the park, just maybe a bright colored arm band to designate you watched a quick video on park manners.Then a park patrol could easily identify someone who should not be in the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaursInOuterspace Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even with Camelback's setup, the park there can still get really crowded and full of kids cutting people off/in landings etc. Plus, as VTski said, that system wouldn't work at Bear due to the lift/park layout. Instead of being all passive-aggressive, why don't all of you guys talk to people on the mountain? Last weekend a mom was going down the park with her daughter, who was about 5 and could barely ski. She cut me off on the down flat down, and I almost hit her coming off of it. I stopped, waited for the mom to come down, and told her it's not a safe trail to be taking her daughter on. Guess what? She agreed, and I didn't see them in the park the rest of the day. Let's be real, nobody reads those signs. Maybe that isn't right, but it's reality. The more you actively do to tell kids "don't sit in the landing," or whatever they need to be told, the better. Maybe you get a dirty look or comment from a parent, but I am pretty sure both you and the parent would prefer that exchange to you landing on their kid. That is how most people learn park etiquette, by watching older people and listening when they tell you stuff. I don't know what it is about Bear, but it is consistently the worst mountain when it comes to people in the parks. It doesn't help that without fail, every time I'm there I see ski school leading a train of kids weaving around in the park. WHY?! Sorry for the rant, but like I said, it just seems like such a huge problem at Bear, it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Law Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm retired from the park game but I never got snaked like I got snaked at BC......back in the day Killy had a sweet midsized park off ramshead. Dudes who rode their every day kept that shit in line, random retard from NY won't wait his turn so they run him down and start throwing punches. Needless to say that was the most organized park I've ever seen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASKIINGSUCKS Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm retired from the park game but I never got snaked like I got snaked at BC......back in the day Killy had a sweet midsized park off ramshead. Dudes who rode their every day kept that shit in line, random retard from NY won't wait his turn so they run him down and start throwing punches. Needless to say that was the most organized park I've ever seen. Start encouraging our park rats to police their own??? That sounds like a great solution and a horrible idea at the same time haha. We had red markers last year I know that, think we've still got em and are authorized to flag tickets. Which is surprising honestly as some at BC treat park crew like the red headed stepchild of the mountain, when in actuality we're out there breaking our backs and risking life and limb working in the most dangerous trails on the hill and acting as a second set of eyes and ears for patrol. Hell lifties probably make more than most of us pushing shovels and I'd bet dollars to donuts we sweat ten times more than those cats.......You ever try to fill a bomb hole at the end of a flat box when it's 20 degrees out and conditions are dust on crust? Anywho, I don't think I'd feel right taking someone's pass as a fellow mountain enthusiast. Maybe that's what needs to happen though for repeat offenders. only those first two sentences were directed toward Mr. Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 i think im going to chime in on this. first off, Tom, hopefully you guys can get a good setup going in cascade. second. this gaper shit needs to be controlled somehow in the park like everyone else said. its okay if you are learning park and are falling off rails and jumps and whatever else. its the idiots who go through the park and do not hit a single thing, cut across the knuckles and landings of jumps, jump off the lips of rails, etc. its crazy. i watch molly get snaked on literally every single thing she went to hit in the park on sunday but multiple people who were using black bear as just a skiing trail. at this point it comes down to safety for the "park rat" and the "gaper". Maybe bear needs to put out more fencing up top or more signs. Who knows, maybe a sign that says if you are not following park etiquette your pass may be pulled would send some people away from the park. Also, i have seen multiple experienced park riders try to tell a less experienced person in the park how to be safe in the park only to receive a foul look from said person. Race team and discovery groups, what the fuck are you guys doing in the parks? you have a whole trail on the other side of the mountain to play on. i dont mind if they ride park but they are not smart about it AT ALL. its a shame because they should know better. /endrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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