Santa Clauss Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I hate to see a ski area die but how does sno keeping making these fiscal/managerial mistakes? They really need someone to come in/ take over, and clean house. There are a lot of good, competent people in management, I promise you that. That's all I'll say. I'm sure they're doing everything they could possibly do right now to get out of this hole they're in. It is built on the wrong side, but not because of terrain. The mountain currently faces West, this is the reason the mountain doesn't hold snow too long into the Spring season. The only reason the mountain was built on the side it was so it could be seen from 81. Lackawanna county wouldn't have any other available property to build the mountain on, so it would have been montage or nothing. I've seen almost every resi from Glemmaura to carbondale and the rest of the townships terrain is shit. I said "Wrong side" because people like to go off saying the opposite side would be capable of having adequate terrain for a resort, this is what i'm saying, in my opinion, is just not true. Yes, it gets a little icy and the snow on the main part of the mountain doesn't last long, but the past few years has been nothing like it was back in the montage days. I enjoy snow regardless of the conditions. If you want perfect snow, go up north or out west. Take what you can get in NEPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Still waiting for KC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I say it's a bad location because skiers and riders from Philly and the Lehigh valley have to drive last bear creek, blue, camelback and JF/BB to get to Sno..yes it's right next to the city of Scranton but Scranton doesn't have the same kind of demographics. So you're pretty much saying the mountain shouldn't exist because it's not convenient for you. I don't think you know what you're talking about. At all. They don't have a problem getting customers, yeah they don't attract the customers like YOU, but that's what makes the mountain so great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Still waiting for KC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutCold Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 So you're pretty much saying the mountain shouldn't exist because it's not convenient for you. I don't think you know what you're talking about. At all. They don't have a problem getting customers, yeah they don't attract the customers like YOU, but that's what makes the mountain so great. If they don't have trouble getting customers, could you please explain why they are perpetually going out of business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riderossi Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 So you're pretty much saying the mountain shouldn't exist because it's not convenient for you. I don't think you know what you're talking about. At all. They don't have a problem getting customers, yeah they don't attract the customers like YOU, but that's what makes the mountain so great. For once, what he is speaking has plenty of validity. Go take a ride up to Camelback on a busy (read: any) weekend and have a stroll through the parking lot. Take note of all the New York and New Jersey plates, you won't be able to miss them. Most people aren't going to bypass these other resorts, especially when they have high speed lifts, to drive the extra distance to get to Sno. Sure we all love not having to wait in lift lines at Sno and having the powder last longer, but the place NEEDS skier visits. You can't possibly sit there, when the mountain is in bankruptcy, and say that the mountain doesn't have a problem getting skiers. Blame it on Dennis, or whoever else you want, but don't deny that the mountain could use some more customers with money in hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRacer Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I don't kow if I buy the location argument. Elk is in the middle of nowhere, 35 minutes north of Sno and no one is talking about them going out of business. Greek Peak even more so. Look at Stowe. People drive past almost every Vermont / Adirondack Ski area to get there and not only are they huge, they have the balls to charge a small fortune for a lift ticket as well and poeple flock. Over 1/2 million (Wyoming Valley) people live literally at the foot of Montage Mountain. Thousands of people drive past it daily on I-81 - The mountain is it's own billboard from the highway. And if you're coming from Philly, Sno is about the same distance as Camelback. Go to the Wyoming Valley Mall, Steamtown or Viewmont Mall on a Saturday night and it's filled with young people. The demographics are there. Simply put - it's piss poor marketing. If I remember correctly back in the 80s the place was popular. I remember various grade school ski trips to Montage from SE PA. Now a days in the age of web marketing, the Pocono resorts and Elk do a much better job at selling their product. Seriously what legitimate ski area has a logo and a trail map that look like something out of a Rocky and Bullwinkle or whatever the hell that cartoon was called? I know I harp on the logo but I spent 3 years marketing a ski area and I know that those cartoonish portrayals aren't going to help their cause. Sno is like a shitty sports team (take the Eagles for example). It needs to be blown up and started again from scratch. Instead of pissing money away on whatever, hire a group of professional people who can effectively market the place. Change the name back to Montage Mountain - it's real name and market the f***ing place the way it deserves to be marketing. We all know there's decent terrain there on the north face and purely from a skiers perspective I'd easily put their terrain up there with most of the Poconos. TELL THE FUCKING PEOPLE ABOUT IT! The amateurish job that has been going on there is almost embarrasing. I'm hoping that they stay viable but if things dont change I'm not so sure - sad because I have good memories skiing there including one day during a storm that dropped 12 inches on the north face which was still one of my better PA days ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 If they don't have trouble getting customers, could you please explain why they are perpetually going out of business? All the customers in the world don't mean anything if they can't afford to pay the mortgage on the (BAD) investments they've made and operating costs at the same time. Go up there on a weekend, the parking lot is completely packed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutCold Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 All the customers in the world don't mean anything if they can't afford to pay the mortgage on the (BAD) investments they've made and operating costs at the same time. Go up there on a weekend, the parking lot is completely packed. What a silly statement. If they are so far from financial viability that no number of customers would allow them to pay the bills, then they wouldn't keep trying. Nobody's gonna say crap it's impossible for us to get enough customers to pay for this place, but lets keep trying. If there was no hope they'd be filing for bankruptcy and shutting the place down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) What a silly statement. If they are so far from financial viability that no number of customers would allow them to pay the bills, then they wouldn't keep trying. Nobody's gonna say crap it's impossible for us to get enough customers to pay for this place, but lets keep trying. If there was no hope they'd be filing for bankruptcy and shutting the place down. Okay... I don't know if you know this, But they DID file for bankruptcy! The reason for this, Like I said, is the number of customers they're getting obviously isn't enough to pay the bills. Elk is a much more legit mountain than Sno. It's steep almost top to bottom with too to bottom runs while Sno is divided up with a lot flat except for about 300 vert on the north face. I've skied Sno more than Elk because it's closer but Elk is a much more legit mountain. I'd be curious to see how many more skier days they post annually than Sno. People will go farther because a place is special...Sno isn't that special..kind of bland except for White lightning. Those lifts are so slow. Takes 5 hours to do as much vert at Sno as 2 hours at blue. Okay, we get it, YOU DON'T LIKE SNO MOUNTAIN. Now why don't you stop consuming yourself with a mountain you have no aspiration of visiting and hate. your beating your lame talking points into the ground. Edited December 1, 2012 by Dave@SponsorMyFace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Okay, we get it, YOU DON'T LIKE SNO MOUNTAIN. Now why don't you stop consuming yourself with a mountain you have no aspiration of visiting and hate. your beating your lame talking points into the ground. Don't even bother with gss he'll just keep doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Clauss Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time trying to support my home mountain to a bunch of old bitter assholes who have nothing better to do than hit refresh every 5 min to see if I responded so that you can flame your bullshit hate on this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutCold Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 FYI when I said file bankruptcy and shut down, I meant Chapter 7, not a Chapter 11 reorganization like they did already. There's no sense in doing Chapter 11 unless you can show a potential path to solvency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 cool fight bros. i like sno. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time trying to support my home mountain to a bunch of old bitter assholes who have nothing better to do than hit refresh every 5 min to see if I responded so that you can flame your bullshit hate on this website. I'm 21 I don't consider that old. And I'm trying to keep you from wasting your time on gss. He does it to every other mountain on this board. Pot calling the kettle black huh Doug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sno does have enough skier visits to pay the bills. They don't use funds appropriately. They don't do the right things to get more skier visits. Most importantly, they don't capitalize on all available revenue streams. That's the shortest version of what is wrong with Sno. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe ghoul Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 A shame to hear about Sno. Are they not opening? I said I'd go there for the past 5 years. I feel like this is my fault. I guess my bid for the moose logo got a higher price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sno is opening, they may not be the greatest run place on earth, but they are still running. They're not going to compete wit boulder or blue or even camelback in terms of getting people excited for opening early, so they didn't start the guns in marginal temps yet. I'm going to go up on monday to get my pass and I'll start chit chatting and see what kind of info i can drum up otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRacer Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'm guessing I'm just wasting my time trying to support my home mountain to a bunch of old bitter assholes who have nothing better to do than hit refresh every 5 min to see if I responded so that you can flame your bullshit hate on this website. Actually Sno (the actual mountain) gets plenty of love on PASR. The management, on the other hand, not so much. No one wants to see a good ski area stuggle or go NELSAP. GSS hating on the vert or whatever is his opinion. GSS has his favorite areas and that's his perogative. No one is saying Sno's terrain sucks or the moutnain is shit. We want to see them do well bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Are there places for rent up there like there are near JFBB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 But no ski houses...JFBB, CB, Shawnee and Elk have tons of rentals within 5-10 minutes from the mountain. Blue and BC get mostly day trippers. Sno is too far for a day trip and the surrounding area does not have a Pocono vibe to it. Lake Harmony has by far the best Pocono vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRacer Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) But no ski houses...JFBB, CB, Shawnee and Elk have tons of rentals within 5-10 minutes from the mountain. Blue and BC get mostly day trippers. Sno is too far for a day trip and the surrounding area does not have a Pocono vibe to it. Lake Harmony has by far the best Pocono vibe. How about the nearly 600,000 people that live within a 15 minute drive from the mountain? They should be able to tap into more of that market. I've worked trade shows in that area and a ton of those people ski elsewhere. Edited December 1, 2012 by Ridge Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poconoceancity Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 You're right...I don't get it. Every time I'm there I think it's great. If they had a T2B High speed quad It would be worth the drive from Lake harmony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe ghoul Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Elk is owned by a zillionaire family that still gets a nickel or dime for every VW sold in america from what I've heard, and only take cash at the bar, that's how secure they are financially. Can't compare their financials with Sno. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Poconoceancity, you're right, there isn't much in the way of ski house rentals in the area. That is one of the things that Sno is lacking, the skiing vacation vibe. When you're up there, you can really enjoy the mountain, but it doesn't feel like an escape the way that Jackfrost or Big Boulder do, or even Camelback for that matter. The people that you want to show up and drop tons of money are looking for a "vacation". A vibe that you get from a little condo, or a chalet or something. That doesn't really exist at Sno. Realistically it's awesome. If you wanted a fun filled weekend and you were from out of town it would be great. Hotels right at the bottom of the mountain, tons of restaurants and nightlife right there, and an awesome mountain to top it all off. However, the people looking for a weekend getaway are more inclined to enjoy the setting of pines and wooden A-frame houses or even the design of that hotel right next to CB over a modern style hotel on Montage Mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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