Rob Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 yea my vote is sidewinder only, cuz if it wasnt for the lowerbeing open to the public, noone would get interested in freestyle boarding or sking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSkier Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Sidewinder only, Gotta give some place for people to progress to want to spend the time/money to get access to the Big park... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Expert parks only.. You have to have a park for people to start at. I firmly believe that if there are beginner or intermediate parks available for the price of a lift ticket that there will be no valid complaints from those who can't access the expert park because they don't have a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 This whole "Park Pass" idea is just crazy. If you buy a lift ticket you should be able to try the whole mountain! And I know you are all going to jump on me and say it is about safety. What about the people who fly down expert trails completely out of control? They hit people all the time. These situations should be handled by the Patrol/Rangers. What's next? Halfpipe Pass? Bump Pass? Expert Pass? And the reason mountains say "No rental equipment in the park" is so that their equipment doesn't get trashed, not because they don't want people in the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schif Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I'm not sure if the whole pay for the park pass thing is a great idea. What about people like me who go to blue only once or twice a year. The first time I go, which may possibly be my only trip of the year, I have to pay an extra 5 bucks on top of a ticket just to go into the park. Sidewinder is a great park, but I really don't think the features are big enough to warrant a park pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexkitten Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 How about a left lane pass so the slow drivers don't get in my way when I am late for work. Silly? Well that's how I feel about park & diamond passes. Idiots will always be on the diamonds, in the park, on the roads, etc. Unfortunately they have just as much right to be there as you do. Learn to avoid them, it will make you a better skier. BTW, the power wedge ROCKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 "What about the people who fly down expert trails completely out of control? They hit people all the time." But thats entirely differant. You can't equate park passes with all these other things. First of all the driving one is a terrible analogy, ever heard of a drivers license? Parks don't equal black diamonds, its too differant things. " Learn to avoid them, it will make you a better skier." You obviously can't ride park. Realize that half the things in a park are blind. On a black diamond, you should be under enough control that you can avoid people in front of you. If you get hit from behind by an idiot, and your such an expert skier, why where you standing there? In a park you can't see beyond a jump ramp, you can't see down the landing on a lot of rails, you definately can't see the end on a downslope rail until you are there. When I ride a crowded park I usually have someone going up and standing on the knuckle next to the ramp telling me if its clear or not. But what happens if I try a rhythmn line? They can't move as fast as I am if I'm going straight into the next jump and they're just standing them. The nature of riding park causes you to do alot of things where you can't see where you are going, and the speeds involved are much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sno Mountain Skier Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 I'm not sure if the whole pay for the park pass thing is a great idea. What about people like me who go to blue only once or twice a year. The first time I go, which may possibly be my only trip of the year, I have to pay an extra 5 bucks on top of a ticket just to go into the park. Sidewinder is a great park, but I really don't think the features are big enough to warrant a park pass. Thats not the major issue at hand though. Its people who dont know how to use features correctly. If you stand in a landing, of a 10 foot jump or a 65 foot jump, then you shouldnt be in a park. But if you only do go one time, you would be happier with Blues park because there would be a less chance of stupid people being in there This whole "Park Pass" idea is just crazy. If you buy a lift ticket you should be able to try the whole mountain! And I know you are all going to jump on me and say it is about safety. What about the people who fly down expert trails completely out of control? They hit people all the time. These situations should be handled by the Patrol/Rangers. What's next? Halfpipe Pass? Bump Pass? Expert Pass? And the reason mountains say "No rental equipment in the park" is so that their equipment doesn't get trashed, not because they don't want people in the park. Shut up. I know by listening to you, you shouldnt be anywere near a park,and also you never do go in them. So you shouldnt even worry about this. And if you do go in there, then the reason you disagree is because your part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Thats not the major issue at hand though. Its people who dont know how to use features correctly. If you stand in a landing, of a 10 foot jump or a 65 foot jump, then you shouldnt be in a park. But if you only do go one time, you would be happier with Blues park because there would be a less chance of stupid people being in there Shut up. I know by listening to you, you shouldnt be anywere near a park,and also you never do go in them. So you shouldnt even worry about this. And if you do go in there, then the reason you disagree is because your part of the problem. With that kind of logic you should tell everyone that doesn't know how to ski bumps to stay out of them. Stupid people! They are in my line. They don't know how to use the features/bumps correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sno Mountain Skier Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 With that kind of logic you should tell everyone that doesn't know how to ski bumps to stay out of them. Stupid people! They are in my line. They don't know how to use the features/bumps correctly. Im not talking about bumps. You were talking about park and so was i, dont change the subject when your wrong. Also your not a first grade teacher, What kind of teacher is on the internet all throughout the day during school hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Im not talking about bumps. You were talking about park and so was i, dont change the subject when your wrong. Also your not a first grade teacher, What kind of teacher is on the internet all throughout the day during school hours? Wow! You don't get it. There are about 20 people(I'll be generous, let's say 1000) on this board that want "Park Passes". Blue does over 300,000 skiers a year. That's 0.3% of you that want "Park Passes" provided there are 1000 of you guys. I don't think you have a very good chance of getting them! Thanks for telling me I'm not a First Grade Teacher! I didn't know. I better look into that. I'll let you how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Where did you get the 300,000 skier visits figure from. I thought Blue does about 200,000 and Camelback 300,000...maybe this year they did closer to 300K because there were alot of crowded days. OK. Maybe my info is off by 100K. It still doesn't look good for "Park Passes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorovr Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) I'm not sure if the whole pay for the park pass thing is a great idea. What about people like me who go to blue only once or twice a year. The first time I go, which may possibly be my only trip of the year, I have to pay an extra 5 bucks on top of a ticket just to go into the park. Sidewinder is a great park, but I really don't think the features are big enough to warrant a park pass. Schif you bring up a great point. For us locals, the idea of a one time fee of $5 is really nothing, but for the rider who is visiting from another mountain or whatever, its just more and more added on to what is already an expensive day. However, please keep in mind what this one time extra fee would get you. You wouldn't have to deal with many of the common gripes that riders have with terrain parks such as families with very young kids, people not being able to make it up the lip of a 60 foot jump, people carving across the lips to rails, etc... I would gladly pay $20 if I knew that there was one trail on the mountain where I knew that I could progress my skiing in as safe a manner as possible, and not have to worry about killing a 4 year old kid because he fell after skiing over a steep landing. I think one of the most important aspects that most of the park pass naysayers are missing here is the issue of SAFETY. Papasteeze has mentioned it in numerous posts, and I believe it is the issue that is paramount above all others. Sure there are other perks of park passes, like allowing us to keep the park in better condition for its users. But if you are a regular visitor to any of the terrain parks in the area, you have to have witnessed at least several very close calls, if not some actually collisions. Sure I've seen people get hit on other trails as well, which is another very valid point, I was run over when I was younger on a black diamond trail by a beginner snowboarder. She edged across my face and luckily I didnt get a huge scar from it but it was definitely scary. But when you add things like big hits where people are literally falling from the sky onto blind landings, and rails where people cannot easily change their direction of travel, it brings a whole other aspect of concern into the equation. Imagine if I was a young kid skiing in the park, and that girl had come off of a jump, I could have been killed. CR Johnson, a famous pro skier, had a similar incident occur earlier this year and it put him in a coma. My stand is that I just want to see some type of pass or patrol for the park so that we can stop something from happening before it does. It is obvious that many patrollers do not know proper park ettiquete, and this will be an issue addressed for next season. If people want to hurt themselves by hucking and sliding, then that should be the decision of the participant. I don't think the institution of park passes will be a dominoe effect for "bump passes, black diamond passes, etc..." There would still be a beginner/intermediate park, and I believe that most people would be satisfied with this. So my argument is mainly one of safety, and if you tell this to the average family in a polite way backed up by evidence and facts, then I think most would agree. Except for Doug. Doug I'll buy you a freakin pass if you will agree with me after this post. 1st grade your post about skier visits is not a valid argument in the least bit because all of those people are not representative of terrain park users, or people who care in the least bit about terrain parks. Many of those people have only seen terrain parks on tv before they came! Edited March 28, 2006 by freeridintre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtboarder Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Can anyone with 5 dollars get a park pass? I haven't been to a mountain with the pass system yet, just wondering how it works. Is it the 5.00 that keeps the noobs from getting a pass and going into the park? Just wondering exactly how you get a pass, can anyone with 5 bucks just buy one and get into the park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Grade Teacher Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 1st grade your post about skier visits is not a valid argument in the least bit because all of those people are not representative of terrain park users, or people who care in the least bit about terrain parks. Many of those people have only seen terrain parks on tv before they came! It's very valid since mountains need to take into consideration all of their customers not just 0.5%. I'll bet if you asked the other 99.5% what they thought of "Park Passes" you would get a very different opinion than yours. Don't get me wrong, I know it is nuts in that park and that people could get hurt very seriously. I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think closing a trail to the vast majority of customers is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sno Mountain Skier Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 It's very valid since mountains need to take into consideration all of their customers not just 0.5%. I'll bet if you asked the other 99.5% what they thought of "Park Passes" you would get a very different opinion than yours. Don't get me wrong, I know it is nuts in that park and that people could get hurt very seriously. I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think closing a trail to the vast majority of customers is the answer. It isnt closing a trail. Somebody who doesnt belong in there, could still pay 5 dollars and get a pass for it. This will only cut down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexkitten Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 OK now that everyone has weighed in I'll let you in on a little secret...when Blue finally gets park passes idiots are gonna fork over the $5.00 for passes and get in your way just like they do now. Know why? Cause there is no way Blue will restrict passes to skilled skiers/ riders. All a newbie needs to do is beg his lodge Mom for $5.00 and he's in the "big boys" park and under you so to speak. Do you think that the money issue will really stop kids and families. I can hear it now... "Hey Dad the park looks really cool from up here on the 6 pack, after we power wedge down Challenge lets get passes and check it out.". Lots of people visit Blue and drop tons of cash on lift tickets, food, rentals, what is another $5.00. FYI, I will totally have a park pass and I rarely use the features in the park. I only go in the park to spot Bob and watch other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Expert parks only.. You have to have a park for people to start at. I firmly believe that if there are beginner or intermediate parks available for the price of a lift ticket that there will be no valid complaints from those who can't access the expert park because they don't have a pass. This whole "Park Pass" idea is just crazy. If you buy a lift ticket you should be able to try the whole mountain! And I know you are all going to jump on me and say it is about safety. What about the people who fly down expert trails completely out of control? They hit people all the time. These situations should be handled by the Patrol/Rangers. ..... No one is keeping you from trying the whole mt. You just have to buy a pass. Dude, why the hell do you think they have Drivers licenses? To make sure that people on the roads know the rules, and/or safety. Sure, you'll have the occasional drunk driver, or 12 year old in dad's corvette, but it just plain makes the roads safer than if you let any random asshole out there. Same thing with parks. Well, you can easiy see them on a trail and a avoid them Like freeridintre said- you can't control your path of direction mid air, and sometimes you're blinded- you have do depend on clear landings, etc! The ski patrol/rangers don't do shit. What was that guy's name, the ski patroller who skied down the steps? can't remember. Thats not the major issue at hand though. Its people who dont know how to use features correctly. If you stand in a landing, of a 10 foot jump or a 65 foot jump, then you shouldnt be in a park. But if you only do go one time, you would be happier with Blues park because there would be a less chance of stupid people being in there Shut up. I know by listening to you, you shouldnt be anywere near a park,and also you never do go in them. So you shouldnt even worry about this. And if you do go in there, then the reason you disagree is because your part of the problem. I would have to second that. With that kind of logic you should tell everyone that doesn't know how to ski bumps to stay out of them. Stupid people! They are in my line. They don't know how to use the features/bumps correctly. Hello!?? Maybe you could see where we're coming from here- they screw up your moguls. How does that make you feel? They get in your way. How do you like that? Wow! You don't get it. There are about 20 people(I'll be generous, let's say 1000) on this board that want "Park Passes". Blue does over 300,000 skiers a year. That's 0.3% of you that want "Park Passes" provided there are 1000 of you guys. I don't think you have a very good chance of getting them! Thanks for telling me I'm not a First Grade Teacher! I didn't know. I better look into that. I'll let you how it turns out. So you're trying to say that the only people for park passes are on this message board? Out of those (corrected) 200,000 people, how many are repeat customers? How many ride park, or know jack shit about it? It's very valid since mountains need to take into consideration all of their customers not just 0.5%. I'll bet if you asked the other 99.5% what they thought of "Park Passes" you would get a very different opinion than yours. Don't get me wrong, I know it is nuts in that park and that people could get hurt very seriously. I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think closing a trail to the vast majority of customers is the answer. Uh yeah.... it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast21602 Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 i really dont see any extremely convincing posts that argue why there should not be park passes... but there seem to be an abundance of posts that clearly show the need for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadows Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 i really dont see any extremely convincing posts that argue why there should not be park passes... but there seem to be an abundance of posts that clearly show the need for them i really think we should start going over what the mtn needs to do and how much they need to spend. a little more in depth than usual. we all know theyre good to have, but what is really involved in getting them and paying to make them work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papasteeze Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 ...when Blue finally gets park passes idiots are gonna fork over the $5.00 for passes and get in your way just like they do now. There will be a couple idots who get in, no doubt. But mommy and daddy are going to have to consciously think about allowing their child in that park. I did not allow my children in the parks when they were young. The thought of them sliding on metal and wood or hurling themselves throught the air was not something I could condone. As they gained skills and common sense with the responsibility code I loosened up. To any and everyone who has been to Mountain Creek, they will attest how well Park Passes work. Personally, I would prefer to see a higher rate on a season pass for the park and a day rate for the occaisional visitor. That way, possibly, some of the money could be used to even further better our parks. I might mention that this is the first year that PA has produced kids who made it into the Finals in a 13 and under freestyle comp. Matter of fact a snow boarder from BB made it onto the team of 25 and scored highest in slopestyle out of 160 kids from 80 resorts. I think that says alot about this areas progression You do not see inexperienced people in the western parks. they are too intimidating, plus there is tons of other terrain to ride on. So the typical tourist stays out of them. Eastern slopes have too many people on the snow per acre and this is what is making our parks more dangerous as skills progress. Kids 12 years old are now throwing stuff that would have been national news 10 years ago. The couple of weekenders per year will still have a park they can handle, most of us are talking about limiting access to the serious expert park features. I am telling you from first hand experience that when my kid is whirling 2 1/2 times around off a 30' jump that there have been times when a decapitation has nearly happened. The problem is that you are supposed to be in control of what is front of you. But if some unknowing, once a seasoner, cuts across that jump while that there are 5' steel edged blades spinning around, who is then to blame when that little kid has his head rolling down the slope? Forget what might happen to my kid because he will likely be able to suck up the impact because he is conditioned and accustomed, he knows how to fall, think about it. No noobs in the big parks, they are going to get hurt. Think of Gate Racing guys and gals. Is that on an open to anyone mountain? noooo... But for $5 bucks you can take a few runs on a Nastar course. I bet there was a time when gates were set up for general use and then things got out of control, then they closed the course and started forming teams for a fee along with training. Slopestyle (park features) is simply another emerging splinter of a snow sport. Blue is the first in our area to offer a freestyle type of program that has fees similar to a race team. This is the direction that this "discipline" is heading, it is inevitable. For people who think they should have access to whole mountain then suck it up and get the addtional pass, respect gets respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkbuilder Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Okay... I guess its time for me to weigh in on this subject. First and foremost I must say that after my experience this year working for a resort, that a park pass should be used for any resorts main park. I believe that at least two parks should be managed correctly to give the guest a wide range of ability levels in park riding. One park for entry level and intermediate guests with no pass requirement, and an advanced level park which would require the pass. I need to be honest that the $5 is cheap compared to a $12 chickenfingers and a soda... (dollar menu holla!) But seriously I have witnessed some of the worst accidents and problems that at least 75%-80% of the time was cause by inexperience, lack of education, and etiquette. At stratton injuries and accidents dropped 60%... over half of the injuries from the previous year ceased to exist. Its not that we want to turn away people from coming into the park, I am dead against that. But this is a necessary step to insure the proper education and understanding of park etiquette. Beginners are the pros of the tomorrow and the future guests in terrain parks at resorts. When their ability is ready they can enjoy an advanced park safely with other users... and we won't have the same issues year after year. Thanks for a great season guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan- Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Park passes would be great, but i doubt it will happen for atleast another few years, and enough with these topics.. we've discussed them a thousand times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexkitten Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Park passes would be great, but i doubt it will happen for atleast another few years, and enough with these topics.. we've discussed them a thousand times... 19,785 times actually. Next time this topic comes up I am going to copy all of the posts from this thread and paste it into one giant post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method9455 Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 The more we push for it, the louder its heard, the sooner they will come. And thats one year of me being at blue 40 days a year, flying over jumps 100 times a day, with a lower chance of killing someone else. It is necessary, if all blue did was make their lips wider and add park passes, that would be a HUGE improvement for me. I will be harping on it all summer. So whether you like it or not, these threads will live on becuase they are whats important to the terrain park. If you don't like it, stop reading them. Lets look back at some idiot comments from the posts above: It's very valid since mountains need to take into consideration all of their customers not just 0.5%. I'll bet if you asked the other 99.5% what they thought of "Park Passes" you would get a very different opinion than yours. thats a stupid assumption. Just becuase they aren't posting here, means they are against park passes? Let me tell you the secret behind a park pass. Its not the $5 cost, its not if there is a safety video or not, its the realization that, oh wow this place is not for me. Everyone skiing can buy a park pass, but when they see a fence and a gate and a guy making sure you have a 'pass' to go in here, and you signed a warning becuase its so dangerous, people get intimidated. Are daddy smith and mommy smith going to take junior in the park if they have to sign a bunch of forms about how dangerous it is? Hell no. But right now its like, hey lets go look at people in the terrain park! Its cool! Lets stand right here its nice and flat! Wow I'm so close to where they are landing! Meanwhile, i once fell on the first jump at mountain creek, as I was sliding down the landing a friend of mine on skis hit it behind me. Yes we were going off a little too close together, but i never really fall on it except this time there was a kid sitting on the landing and i tried to avoid him. This was 2 years ago pre-park pass days. His skis popped off becuase he landed in a hockey stop to avoid me, one of hte skis helicoptered off and hit me in the back of the head. It dented my metal helmet there was so much force from it spinning. Imagine if he had gone over first and tried to land like i did and the ski hit the kid who was below me without a helmet? The pass makes it much more intimidating, people who don't belong will go in with a little more caution, and the large majority of people would understand why they're needed if you explain it. Don't get me wrong, I know it is nuts in that park and that people could get hurt very seriously. I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think closing a trail to the vast majority of customers is the answer. its not closed, $5 a year is just breaking your bank account? Realize at mountain creek its not a hassle to get the pass, you walk up to a shack thats on the top of the mountain, fill out a form, hand over $5 and your done. Total time - 5 minutes, total cost - $5. Once per season. Yet it has made the parks 1,000 times safer. Ok maybe the statistic is 60%, but to me the differance between riding in that park and any other in the area is HUGE. There are 1 or 2 idiots in there a day tops that I run across, my average run at Shawnee it was 1 or 2 idiots per feature. All a newbie needs to do is beg his lodge Mom for $5.00 and he's in the "big boys" park and under you so to speak. dirty little secret about the park passes, now that being an idiot is the exception not the norm, those little kids lose their toughness real fast. Plus they start to stand out becuase there are so few. Get in someones way once and your taught to watch out your standing in a landing, twice and your yelled at because your in a landing, 3 times and they probably won't skip the rail next time and your getting hit. Usually once is all they need. Really good point onthe Nastar comparison I hadn't thought of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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